faith in Christ vs. faith in our faith

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Permalink Reply by Terry Lee Michael on July 15, 2012 at 10:09am

Dear Jenny;  Jesus gives the description of a TRUE disciple in John 8:31-32 (NIV),  ..."If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.  Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free."

 

Also James 1:22, "Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves.  Do what it says."

 

John 14:1,  Jesus said, "Let not your hearts be troubled.  You believe in God; believe ALSO in me."

 

Acts 3:22-23;  For Moses said, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you.  Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from among from among his people."

Hope this helps!

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Permalink Reply by Colby on July 15, 2012 at 12:19pm

/* Can anyone please tell me, what is the difference between having faith in your faith in Jesus and having faith in Jesus Christ? */

Jenny,

 

Did your husband listen to the entire sermon or just a snippet?  If the former, what was his take on the distinction the apologist or preacher was driving home?  Would you happen to know the name of the apologist?  Could you post or email me a link to a Website where we can read or listen to the sermon where the statement was made so we can read/hear it clearly and in context?  If so, please share this information.

 

"Faith" is a word we hear often, but what does it really mean?  Faith in what, or in whom?  Is faith the same as belief?  Faith is placed in an object, not in itself.  People put their faith in many things, not necessarily the God revealed to us in the Bible and in the person of Jesus Christ, which is to say they have a misplaced and misdirected faith.  

 

Only faith in Jesus Christ gives us eternal life for he is the way, the truth and the life and the light of the world.  Hebrews 11.1 tells us: "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Or, as the recent KNT translation by N.T. Wright puts it, "What is faith?  It is what gives assurance to our hopes; it is what gives us conviction about things we can't see."

 

Faith  is central to how we live as Christians.

• faith comes by hearing the word of God (Rom 10:17),

 

• we are saved by grace through faith (Eph 2:6-10), and

 

• we live by faith (Rom 1:17, 2 cor 5:7) in Jesus Christ.

 

• In First Corinthians 13, Paul includes faith in the triad of the most precious and foundational of all Christian virtues: faith, hope and love.   He says, "If I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing" (1 Cor 13:2).

 

• The Apostle James links faith to good works, which are the fruit of and tangible demonstration of our faith (James 2:14-24).

 

• Hebrews 11:6 says, "it is impossible to please God without faith."

 

• Hebrews 10.23 tells us, “Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.” God is faithful to us, but we aren’t always faithful to him.

 

• Jude's letter, short and to the point, urges us to build ourselves up in the faith, then fight for faith and stand for truth.

 

The Bible is full of stories of people who placed their faith in God and accomplished much. Moses, Abraham, Enoch, and Noah readily come to mind. Noah’s faith saved him from the great flood, enabling him to build the great ark that preserved life on the earth. By faith, these heroes committed wonderful acts for God; God, in turn, clearly took care of them.

 

It's one thing to have the kind of naive, childlike faith with which many of us were raised, believing that God loves because that's what we were taught--a faith unexamined, unquestioned and untested by life's trials and tribulations.  It's easy to have faith when everything is going reasonably well in our lives.  But it's quite another thing to have the kind of mature faith we see modeled by Abraham--faith that has been tested, sharpened, and refined by struggles.

 

"Increase our faith!," the apostles who were Jesus' handpicked disciples, said to the Lord.  He replied, "If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you" (Luke 17:5-6).

 

For those of us with faith, let us pray, "Lord, increase our faith!"  To those that haven't yet joined us, let us pray that God may give them faith and his saving grace.

 

God's abiding faith, hope and love be with you always,

 

Colby

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Permalink Reply by JB on July 15, 2012 at 12:19pm

 

 

Most people that hear that statement will always condemn the person stating it.

What is meant by having faith in your faith is; having faith in what Jesus did.

You will find, in various passages of scripture, “faith in Jesus Christ;” and others will say “the faith of Jesus Christ” To me is very different. It is His faith that moves the mountains; it's our faith in Him or “His faith” In other words, when we have someone else pray for us; we are actually having faith in the other persons faith and not in our own.

The following scriptures will show what I mean.

Acts.3:16, His name and faith in His name has made this man strong, whom ye see and know, Yea and the faith which is by Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.  

Ro. 3:22, Even the righteousness of God, which is by faith of Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all them that believe.

Gal. 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ……

Gal. 3:22, The scripture has concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.  

The faith that we have to move mountains is only our faith in Him “Jesus Christ” that can move the mountain. “His Faith”

As I said before, when we have others pray for us, we are having faith in his/her faith in Jesus Christ to heal etc..

We will see this in a prayer line; people will go to the ones they think has more faith, than they themselves; usually to the Pastor, if he is there to pray for the people.

I don’t know if this helps or hinders or need more explaining.

Joe

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Permalink Reply by Jenny on July 15, 2012 at 6:40pm

very interesting distiction! my brain can just barely grasp what you are saying here, i think more because i am very much a babe and not because of your explaining. 

so you are saying that i don't have to rely on my own faith, but that i can ask for Jesus' faith?

sometimes my "Christian eyes" suddenly give way to "worldly eyes". what would you say to someone in this situation about the faith OF Jesus vs. faith IN Jesus?

Thanks!

Jenny

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on July 15, 2012 at 12:42pm

Jenny,

There is a segment within the church realm that puts the focus on faith rather than on Christ. In this they teach that it is about your faith and the amount of faith you have that makes the difference. It becomes about you and Jesus becomes somewhat secondary. Our faith is to be placed in and on Jesus. We do not trust in our faith, great or small, but rather in the author and perfecter of our faith, Jesus Christ. I do not have faith that I trust in Jesus, I simply have faith (trust) in Jesus. Faith is essential to the Christian life, but that faith is to be focused on Jesus and resting in Him, not on self and how much faith we have. I have been in meetings where people got up and ran around the church yelling I got the faith (no kidding). I don't want to be able to say I got the faith, but rather I have Jesus and He has me. We also need to understand that the word "Faith" is used to describe our trust in Jesus. What is the difference between little faith and great faith? One's trust in Jesus.

 

To be fair, as Colby pointed out, without further input we cannot tell you what this apologist meant. We also know that there are differences in how people use these terms, thus we cannot put all in the same group because they use the term.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Jenny on July 15, 2012 at 6:37pm

Thanks everyone, lots of food for thought and prayer here.

Colby, I asked my husband to elaborate on what the apologist was saying, but he didn't seem able to. 

After reading your comments, it seems he probably meant something similar to what LT described as people putting the focus more on their faith, more so than on the Person of Jesus Christ. Sort of reducing faith to something like "the force", something to be manipulated. 

So maybe someone can help me please: Is it wrong to regularly ask oneself, "how is my faith? is it strong enough?". I have to admit that part of me is afraid that in the end I will be told that I didn't have strong enough faith. In having this fear, am I falling into the trap of putting my faith in my faith more so than the Person of Jesus Christ?

I appreciate your help, 

Jenny

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Permalink Reply by JB on July 15, 2012 at 11:23pm

 

Qt. I do not have faith that I trust in Jesus.

Faith is a conviction or a persuasion of the heart. Then you are telling me that you are not fully persuaded that you trust in Jesus? Surly I’m not reading this right.

I am fully persuaded that my faith is in the finished work of Jesus. I have to have faith just to believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. Heb.11:6.

To walk by faith; “conviction” when I do something out of alignment with God, there will be a conviction in my heart that something is not right; I agree and trust the leading of the Holy Spirit and cease whatever I am doing.  That is walking by faith.

To walk by faith; “persuasion” I am fully persuasion that what God has promised He will bring it to pass. Whether healing my body, or deliverance from demonic attacks. Etc. This is also waking by faith.

Though our faith is in Him; it is Him that does the work, not us. Jesus said in Jo.5:30, by myself I can do nothing, I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, because I seek not to please myself, but to please Him that sent me. We can only make judgments based on what the Holy Spirit impresses upon our hearts. “This is called, the grace of God”

What does it mean when He says “thy faith has made thee whole?” Mat.9:22 ….daughter, be of good comfort, thy faith hath made thee whole. Her faith was in the covenant God made with Abraham.

 Lk.17:19… Arise, go thy way, thy faith hath made thee whole.

According to your faith, be it unto you? Mat.9:29, He touched their eyes saying, according to your faith, be it unto you.,

We can have all the faith in the world, but if it hasn’t been provided for by God through Jesus Christ; your faith will profit you nothing. And neither will a wavering faith.  But let him ask in faith nothing wavering.…. With a wavering faith, let not that man think that he shall receive anything of the Lord. Ja.1:6-7

So what I am saying as well is; that I have faith “I’m fully persuaded” that I can go to Jesus for my needs, as well as another person. I have just as much faith to approach the thorn room as any preacher; I don’t need to call on someone else to pray for me. If I feel I am not trusting in God enough to intercede for myself, then Yes I will call for the elders or someone that I know has the faith to cast out whatever I need casting out.

So how can you say that you don’t have faith that you trust in Jesus?

Perplexed,

Joe

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on July 16, 2012 at 6:02am

Joe,

You only quoted half of what I said and thus missed the whole point. I said "I do not have faith that I trust in Jesus, I simply have faith (trust) in Jesus." My faith is not in my faith, but rest solely on Him and in Him.  There is a segment out there that teaches you to trust your faith. That simply misses the mark. Jesus is the mark.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on July 15, 2012 at 8:09pm

Jenny, I have a question about faith, too. I am wondering if there are different kinds of faith that we can have? Saving faith is a gift. We are saved by grace through faith. Then the Scriptures talk about continuing faith --which seems to be what we exercise daily as we depend upon God and trust in God. Then there is the gift of faith mentioned in 1 Cor 12:9. I wonder what is that kind of faith and if it is a special gift not given to every member of the Body of Christ but only to whom the Spirit wills?

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Permalink Reply by Mary O on July 16, 2012 at 7:05am

Hi Jenny, God bless!

I have been around a religion that practiced faith in our faith. God woke me up. A friend (in anger) said...you're always relying on Him. He's your crutch! Seriously, that's what she said. She's mad because I go to Jesus. Think about that. I thought that's what we're supposed to do. Trust in Him. Go to Him with the big and small things, but go to Him. My response...If I must lean on something, let it be the everlasting arms. She didn't say another word.

Love,

Mary

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Permalink Reply by Colby on July 17, 2012 at 10:34pm

Jenny,

 

Everyone has faith to some degree, in one thing or another.  The question before us is, How can we be certain that we have a real, true and saving faith in Jesus Christ?

 

Real faith, the true and saving faith that the Christian has, which provides the assurance of eternal life, is based on Biblical truth and embodied in Jesus Christ.  Specifically, faith that is grounded in the Gospel or Good News of Jesus Christ:

 

• Jesus is the son of God, our Lord and Savior;

 

• Jesus died for our sins on the cross so that we might be reconciled with God;

 

• Jesus was buried and resurrected on the third day.

 

• That, on the basis of what Christ did for us, you and I may receive God's forgiveness, the gift of the Holy Spirit and eternal life. (See First Corinthians 15).

 

We are not saved by belief--by the mere knowledge of these facts.  The devils believe but they are not saved.  God's written Word tells us that we must acknowledge that we are sinners, repent, cast ourselves on God's mercy in Christ, accept his offer of salvation, receive him as our Lord and Savior, and in that way we move from belief in propositions to faith that is a living relationship with Christ.  To paraphrase the Apostle Paul: We are in Christ, and Christ is in us.  Christian faith is, at its foundation, relational.  In other words, it is about knowing and loving Jesus Christ and putting our complete hope, trust and confidence in him.  True faith gives substance to our hope, which we cannot see (Hebrews 11:1).

 

First John provides three tests we can use to verify that our faith is real and true.  [1 John 5:13 ] "I have written this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know you have eternal life.".

 

1.  Right Belief: [1 John 3:23] To believe in the name of Son and to love one another as Jesus commanded us: "that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us." As Jesus said in John 8:31:  "If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples."

 

2.  Right Living: [1 John 3:10] "So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God."  [1 John 3:14]: " We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death."

 

3.  Evidence of new life, of turning away form habitual sin, by the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit. [1 John 3:9]: "No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God." As Jesus said: "Go out and sin no more."  Our good works, which God prepared us for, are the fruit that demonstrate our faith.

 

Let Christ's grace, mercy and peace be with us in truth and love,

 

Colby

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Permalink Reply by Jenny on July 18, 2012 at 7:46am

thanks for laying that out so clearly, it was really helpful to see it simply laid out!

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