All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Fact vs. Fiction
I had considered setting up a group on this, or perhaps it would make a good forum category (LT?). ;-)
So I'll start with last night. Service was on the fruits of the Spirit, focusing on the love, joy and peace portions first, with the others being covered in the next two sermons. And the altar call was for those who want those fruits to show forth and are dealing with things stealing the love, joy and peace from their lives. Well of course, I went up cause these are things I've prayed and prayed for in the face of all the stress and troubles I've been hit so hard with for so long now. And the elder Pastor's wife prayed with me. I cried and cried and told her I'm just so exhausted, I need some relief. Her response.....don't say that and let satan hear you. Hmmmmmmmmm
This is a prevalent belief in my church. It is why they believe in smile even when you're hurting, put on airs, a face, show yourself joyful even if not so you don't bring others down, and God forbid you let satan hear you feel you're defeated or he'll use it against you.
Now I understand spiritual warfare, and I know there's the mind battle and all that. But what I get from this is, if David hadn't cried out to God repeatedly, WHEN will you save me Lord? WHY are You so far away? Have you forgotten me?, etc. etc......we wouldn't have the Psalms. So was David's crying to God to save him and how persecuted and tired and weeping night and day he was going straight to the ears of satan to use against him?
I'm feeling this is a religious attitude. Nowhere in scripture do I find anything that says not to speak our frustrations and fears aloud for fear satan will hear and use it against us. If I'm wrong, can someone point out scripture to this effect?
At any rate, this is just ONE of many of the fact or fiction items in the churches today, or at least in mine. And I was thinking this would be a great topic to debate the various beliefs on church practices and beliefs vs. what the Bible truly says, or misinterpretations, etc....religious attitudes that simply have no place in our lives.
Would like opinions on this one particular topic of does satan use our words spoken against us when we're crying to God for relief (is that scriptural?), or are we to follow in the footsteps of the one who was a man after God's own heart and cry out to Him as David did without fearing retribution from satan? And would like any other religious "myths" we could discuss here.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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Here are my thoughts first off: Satan is not a complete idiot. He's been playing this game for sooooooo long. You don't have to say a word for the enemy to know that you're shutting down. You saying it helps release some of that tension from you. If we can't share our burdens to our brothers & sisters in Christ, who can we admit them to? If we can't cast our cares on the Lord for fear Satan will hear us, why bother praying at all other then all the prayer adorations which He is so worthy of. However, He tells us to take our prayers & supplications to Him. One thing He doesn't tell us to do is lie. I love Casting Crown's song Stain Glass Masquerade. It fits so perfectly in your situation. Grin & Bear It would be a great motto as well. Have you ever considered that maybe, just maybe, it's time to move on? Get on your face & seek Him deeply on this. I know they understand your son but what good is your son if he loses you? You need a strong support behind you. I know these people love you deeply but sometimes for us to grow, we need to be planted in other fields. There are a few on here that would fit right in with your church & I praise God for their optimism but sometimes, you just have to get out of the clouds & come back to reality. It's great we have joy in Jesus but the power bill still has to be paid. Not saying you can't find joy in paying the power bill but it does get harder when the pocketbook is empty. You can say Praise the Lord, I have no money but I'm trusting in the Lord. Reality is, you go home & have no lights. In those situations, I'm still trusting Him to pay it but it would have been better, IMO, if He had paid it the day earlier. Another good example is a mother having a baby. That is painful. During that labor do you not cry or say anything so Satan won't know you're hurting. Heck fire no you don't. I scream O MY GOD!!!!!!
On the flip side, you do know He cares for you and though it doesn't seem like it, He is going to have the Victory. There is no doubt about that for sure. You are a babe in Christ. If you look back at the things He has done in your life, Hallelujah should be the words that rise. I so understand your pain but more then that, He does too. He's got you girl & He's going to take care of this one way or another. It may not be the way you think it should be done but He will never leave you. You should never hold back telling Him how you feel.
Galatians 6:2 Tells us to Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. How can we fulfill the law of Christ by bearing one another's burdens if we don't know what they are?
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Tammy, I have prayed on this and I really feel this is where I need to be. No church is going to be perfect. I can leave there and go to another, with all the problems I have going on, into a group of complete strangers, feeling all alone and starting all over again, no one to turn to, and find issues there I don't agree with, or stay where I am and where I feel I'm supposed to be and deal with my differences of opinion vs. theirs. What if I chose another church and they didn't believe in speaking in tongues? I don't want to start church hopping....there's no such thing as a perfect church.
But I did feel this was more my church belief/myth than reality because I'd not found scripture to support it. And perhaps one day, I'll have enough knowledge to refute it openly when confronted with such "nonsense" there. Yet I'm sure many have been faced with similar myths from their own churches and that's why I wanted to start this discussion to work at dispelling some of these ancient beliefs that aren't grounded in scripture.
I like their optimism too....unless and until they seem to take an attitude that they're superior in belief because they are optimistic. Perhaps they simply haven't dealt with what others have or it's a personality trait. We're all wired differently. I love to be optimistic. But when life kicks ya over and over, sometimes the optimism can kinda fade a bit at times. ;-)
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Optimism isn't bad... but it doesn't trump joy.
Joy is in place in the midst of the troubles. Joy still acknowledges the trials and troubles, but knows God is bigger and rejoices in that. Joy knows and rests in the fact that nothing can ever separate us from the love of Christ.
God is greater than satan.. it doesn't matter what satan may hear or may not hear, because God is greater!
That would be my response to her...
1 John 4:4
4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
Additionally, I would also say this:
1 John 4:18
18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
Ask her why is she so fearful of satan? Her response sounds like she fears that satan can get the better of her.. Doesn't she know her authority? I don't mean in a prideful way... We know it's God's authority, but He has given us authority also. We are victorious by knowing who we are In Him.
afterall, Is this not true?
2 Chronicles 20:15
New Living Translation (NLT)
15 He said, “Listen, all you people of Judah and Jerusalem! Listen, King Jehoshaphat! This is what the Lord says: Do not be afraid! Don’t be discouraged by this mighty army, for the battle is not yours, but God’s.
It's not our battle and Jesus has already won it.
Blessings, Carla
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Ahhhh, you hit EXACTLY what I needed. I had considered David crying out in the Psalms and even thought of God being greater than satan. But 1 John 4:18!!! I do wonder what would be a response to that. I think that sums it up so greatly. I know we're not supposed to mess around with satan, but are we supposed to also be afraid of him? And that verse answers that. I think the old Protestant beliefs are still so grounded in the fear of hell, etc. That's the old preaching I grew up on....fear, fire and brimstone. Nothing about the love of Christ. They now teach that love, but they're still so grounded in the fear from their early days that it's hard to dispel I guess.
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Perhaps you could pray about it if you plan on talking to her about it. There's a gentle loving way to approach it as we are called to speak the truth in Love.
I might say something like this next time seeing her... "I want to thank you for praying for me and supporting me last week exactly when I needed it. There's something I want to ask you about though.... You mentioned that when we speak out loud satan can hear us... when you said that it gave the impression of being fearful of him.. But God's word in 1 John 4:18 says 'perfect love casts out fear, and that if we fear we are not made perfect in love'.... Do you think that we should be fearful of satan?, afterall, God is greater than satan...we are also reassured of that in God's Word." PAUSE, then respond before she can say anything.. it may open up the opportunity for her to go away and think about it without being embarrassed, and say something like..."I don't really have time to talk about it now, but I'd love to connect with you in a couple of days to talk more about it if you want to."
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I don't "plan" on talking to her about it. But I'm trying to get more knowledgeable on it if it should arise again.
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Sounds like a great way to approach her to me Carla. Char, I would still try to ask someone somehow sooner or later. Next time they mention it, ask them if they didn't mind showing you in Scripture where that can be found so you can use it against him.
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Permalink Reply by JB on
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Seek,
If David had been on this side of the Cross, would he have been saying, or crying the same thing? I don’t think so.
JB
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Well, you have a right not to think so, but I honestly think....yes, he would. Paul spent some time learning before we hear about his troubles. He said he LEARNED to be content. It didn't come overnight. But we don't hear about the time he was learning. We don't know what he may have cried. Everyone today is on this side of the cross, yet many still cry because of extreme afflictions. When we question why they do so, it's sort of demeaning to those going through hard times that they're not on the same plane that others may be on. We're told to weep with those who weep, not kick each other in the teeth for crying.
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There's nothing wrong with crying out... We don't stay in that place of crying out just like David didn't. A healthy response is to cry out and then let it turn to Praise and Worship of our Lord as He answers our prayers because He ALWAYS answers our prayers. Tears will turn to Joy.
We're fallen humans in a fallen world, crying out is totally natural, but as a born again Christian our tears turn to Joy.
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Yes, David cried over and over for years. But there were times he would still praise during the tears, and times he could only cry out. Then he is delivered and dances in the streets. I just wonder if anyone told him to buck up and take it like a man and stop letting satan hear him. LOL Probably not.
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