All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Fact vs. Fiction
I had considered setting up a group on this, or perhaps it would make a good forum category (LT?). ;-)
So I'll start with last night. Service was on the fruits of the Spirit, focusing on the love, joy and peace portions first, with the others being covered in the next two sermons. And the altar call was for those who want those fruits to show forth and are dealing with things stealing the love, joy and peace from their lives. Well of course, I went up cause these are things I've prayed and prayed for in the face of all the stress and troubles I've been hit so hard with for so long now. And the elder Pastor's wife prayed with me. I cried and cried and told her I'm just so exhausted, I need some relief. Her response.....don't say that and let satan hear you. Hmmmmmmmmm
This is a prevalent belief in my church. It is why they believe in smile even when you're hurting, put on airs, a face, show yourself joyful even if not so you don't bring others down, and God forbid you let satan hear you feel you're defeated or he'll use it against you.
Now I understand spiritual warfare, and I know there's the mind battle and all that. But what I get from this is, if David hadn't cried out to God repeatedly, WHEN will you save me Lord? WHY are You so far away? Have you forgotten me?, etc. etc......we wouldn't have the Psalms. So was David's crying to God to save him and how persecuted and tired and weeping night and day he was going straight to the ears of satan to use against him?
I'm feeling this is a religious attitude. Nowhere in scripture do I find anything that says not to speak our frustrations and fears aloud for fear satan will hear and use it against us. If I'm wrong, can someone point out scripture to this effect?
At any rate, this is just ONE of many of the fact or fiction items in the churches today, or at least in mine. And I was thinking this would be a great topic to debate the various beliefs on church practices and beliefs vs. what the Bible truly says, or misinterpretations, etc....religious attitudes that simply have no place in our lives.
Would like opinions on this one particular topic of does satan use our words spoken against us when we're crying to God for relief (is that scriptural?), or are we to follow in the footsteps of the one who was a man after God's own heart and cry out to Him as David did without fearing retribution from satan? And would like any other religious "myths" we could discuss here.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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LOL .... seriously though, a lot of David's problems he brought on himself.
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Yes indeed.. Which makes God and His Grace and Mercy towards us all the more beautiful and overwhelming.
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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I'm not sure what side of the cross matters when human suffering is the same.
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Permalink Reply by JB on
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I'm not sure what side of the cross matters when human suffering is the same.
Do you really think that God deals with us today; the same as He did with those on the other side of the Cross?
God gave Abraham a promise “Covenant” 430 years before the law was ever given, Gal.3:17.
So we are not under the law, but under grace, and I am aware of the fact that there are some here that has a different view of grace, and its purpose than I. Jo.1:17 says “for the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ”. I see one reason why so many feel they must cry and terry before the Lord to try and get Him to hear them, and that is “they still have a sin consciousness, rather than a righteous consciousness” He says “come boldly to the throne of grace, that ye may obtain mercy and find grace to help in the time of need” Heb.4:16. Isa.58:4 says,…You shall not fast as you do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high…Seems most are still under John’s Baptism; that is under expectation, rather than believing what the Word tells us in 2Pet.1:1-4, He has given us everything that pertains unto life and godliness, “in our spirits”, and it is appropriated by faith. So why do we ask Him to give us something, He says He has already given? It comes to fruition by, and through faith and the knowledge of Him who has called us.
So how do you accept the blessing that God gave to Abraham? By works?, Rather, is it not by "Grace through Faith"?
Blessings,
JB
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Actually no I don't. I think He definitely handles us very gently & lovingly. He's patient. He's kind. He is willing to wait on His children while they try to sort out the answers. He hears us now as much as He did then. I do believe Char knows He hears her. I think she's just anxious awaiting His answer & then she's confronted with those whose heart have grown a bit cold towards those that are still trying to get to where they feel the Lord has lead them. I think the Lord's harshness has gone down quite a bit since the cross.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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That's part of the anxiousness too. I do know He hears me...don't know why He doesn't seem to answer at times LOL, but I know He hears and cares and understands. UNTIL....when that cloud of depression descends all that knowing seems to be so covered by this dark negative cloud where I cannot seem to muster up the belief He hears and I hate that cloud of depression because it does bring on that negative voice and cloud and hopelessness. And it seems to take days to pull back up from it once it has passed, and feel I'm back up where I was before it hit. And the anxiousness is in wanting those clouds to end, to not happen anymore and wondering where the healing is and why I haven't received it yet, knowing God wants me healed. But wondering if the depression is perhaps part of the healing yet hating being in it so much, I am anxious for it to just end.
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Char,
We are the people of God. We belong to him. He is ours and we are his. Nothing can changed that. Fallen angels, including Satan in that bunch, are nothing but one more category of God's fallen creatures. They are wicked to the core and seek to harm us with all that is in them, but we have a mighty God that will only allow what ultimately will strengthen us and mature us, though it feels like we are dying at times. Life is hard, but the Joy of the Lord can truly supersede all God allows to come our way.
Do not say you are happy when you are not, but do make the knowledge of the Holy to be your strength and joy, like,David remind your self of who you are in Christ and who our God is. Has He not been faithful through the suffering, has He not brought you this far without loosing your mind (well, that is up to personal interpretation i know - haha). There is more reason to rejoice than not to, when our hope is in the Lord.
Cry out to God as you need to, He understands and it is good for the soul. Let none of us worry about what fallen angels hear or don't hear. They are no concern to us. Our Lord has already pass judgement over them and has called us to trample such serpents. Do as God leads you. Fallen angels are not all knowing and may be, just may be sometimes we do assist them in knowing what pushes our buttons, but you would think that Satan is not on the church pulpit when we are crying out to God :) in a Godly church. I know he is not in all places at all times and has bigger fish to fry than us. We serve a good and all powerful God. I am sure the sister(s) mean well. We sometimes have to go before God and asked him what He wants us to do about the fellowship we are attending and do as He leads us.
There is truth in the fact that speaking and thinking positively can help our day and health go better, but we do not do that as the world does. Our thinking positively is grounded in our hope being the Lord, the maker and sustainer of all we see and all we do not see. Our speaking is not birth in our positive thinking capabilities, but solidly founded in speaking what God has spoken as eternal truth.
Like Tammy mentioned already, there is nothing , we can say that fallen angels don't already know about the human condition. They understand wickedness better than we do, for they are more wicked than we are. Expressing our pain is not going to give them more ammunition, as if we were orphans without an all powerful God. Our God is watching and hearing Everything in his universe. Again, standing and speaking the Word of truth does have many benefits for us, even when we do not feel like doing it or saying it. The Word of God is powerful. You all know that I do not mean that as the word of faith movement means it, but the word of faith movement have taken a biblical truth and twisted it and taking it to an unhealthy extreme.
Let us hold fast to the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who has promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23.
Blessings sis. Not sure i really dealt with your question - yikes :)
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Well I kinda knew it was false, but in case there was some scripture I was missing on this, I wanted to double check. I think it's just the old COG mindset/teachings people are still mired in. I hope I can one day stand firm against such assertions when they're brought up and refute them using scripture.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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I really can’t judge the fear because I have fear. I was just thinking that God uses hardships and trouble in the sanctification process, not only to make faith stronger but to expose sin and lead to confession and repentance and mind renewal. Also, regarding the fruit of the Spirit and how they are produced in the lives of believers -- is it possible that one of the ways peace grows is through going through fearful times and finding out after each one that God didn’t abandon you during that awful time and realizing that it was so bad you know that there was no way you could have survived it without God’s presence getting you through it, whether you felt His presence or not? Just some thoughts.
Sanctification involves confessing sin, repenting, and submitting to God’s will.
So, along those lines, I can’t judge the ones in your church who are afraid of speaking negatively. They, too, are in a sanctification process. It might be wrong to fear Satan or to have any kind of fear, but we can only walk in the light we have, and it is said that this is why we need to pay attention to our fear, because it has meaning and will show us some things. And you could ask them why they are afraid in this way. You could pray for them and ask God to show them this fear and to help them see why it's wrong for them to fear this way -- and to use you to help them, too. Again just food for thought.
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