All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Evolution
I wasn't really sure where to put this, but this article on CNN came up today and it really bothered me. It's about a human skull they found that is supposed to be an ancestor of ours. I don't like to read things that could shake my faith, but this bothers me and it makes me wonder whether or not we really evolved but it was just done by God's hand. I mean if we really were created then why all of these controversies with the human skulls and our supposed ancestors? Anyone?
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/17/world/europe/ancient-skull-human-evol...
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Roy -
Love you my brother. :)
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Grazer,
In regards to talking a snake and a talking donkey, here's an exert from an article which says it better than I can:
What's the Real Issue?
Talking snakes, donkeys that speak in a human language, a crucified Jewish carpenter that comes back from the dead... These things, skeptics point out, aren't things we routinely see and experience, and so we must reject them as being false and see them possessing no more real substance than a tale in Aesop's fables.
But what's the real issue here? Is it truly a talking snake or something else?
At its core, the real problem is that the skeptic imports their anti-supernatural bias and philosophical naturalistic presuppositions into their view of the Bible. From the outset, their a priori position is that God does not exist. That being true in their worldview, then miracles become impossible, and since the Bible contains miraculous accounts, the Bible becomes impossible to believe.
But what if God does exist? Then might we expect a book that describes some pretty spectacular and rare things? We certainly might. As C. S. Lewis observed, "But if we admit God, must we admit Miracle? Indeed, indeed, you have no security against it. That is the bargain." [3]
In truth, a talking snake or donkey is much less miraculous than the odds of life popping up on our planet all on its own, given the universe as we know it and the number of cosmological constants that must be in place for us to actually exist. Or DNA arising on its own accord. Or... take your pick of a variety of astonishing things that are incredible to believe, but somehow still exist.
The question is not if a snake or donkey can talk, but if a supernatural God exists. If the latter is true, the former is a walk in the park. That's the question the skeptic should heartily pursue instead of using a talking snake as an excuse to opt out of the real conversation.**********
If you want to read the full article here is the link:
http://www.blogos.org/compellingtruth/literal-interpretation2.php
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Roy,
In regards to the miracles, I agree with what you have said.
However, I'm not making/understanding the connection you are making as to the age of the earth.
Again.. just for the record, I believe in a literal 6 day Creation.
Blessings, Carla
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One more point of clarity...
I don't believe there is room for belief in evolution as scripture does not allow for that.
When I say 'the age of the earth'... this still means uncomprising that God has Created all there is, but could have done so with the appearance of age.
I should have probably clarified that sooner.
Blessings, Carla
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Carla,
I do not know how He did it. You are very correct to say that He made the universe with the appearance of age. We have no way to explain what we see based on a young earth explanation. I believe God made the earth in six days simply because He said He did. I believe His Word. I do not believe I have the authority to say anything differently from that. There are so many things that I do not understand. I feel I have less understanding than many of these that say He did not do it in six days. For me it comes down to the authority of Scripture. I am not willing to compromise on that. I am willing to readily admit there are many things that I do not understand. I don't understand how He did any of the miracles in Scripture yet I believe in them all.
How did He make that lame man from birth get up and walk? How did He walk on water? How does God know all about those things that have not yet happened or know those things that have happened before they came to be. We serve a God that does things beyond our ability to know or understand. My mind tells me that I should be held responsible for all my sins. My faith tells me, however, that I am forgiven of all of them. He is my Father and I am going to accept what He said and encourage others to do so as well. I am not in disagreement with all of you. I am just stating some things from a little different perspective. I don't know how He did it. Since God created time, space and matter, He has an answer for all of this. None of us can understand even the simplest of cells. Maybe someday He will open our minds to understand. I'm not sure that we will ever understand these things. The Bible does indicate that I will know as I am known. Maybe I will understand these things. I do enjoy reading how God could have done all these things in six days but I would rather read how all my sins are forgiven. Tell me the story of Jesus and tell me of His wonderful love.
I agree with you.
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Yes-- Amen. I think it is more edifying and freeing to focus on the things which we can be completely certain.. Such as God's forgiveness and Love. Many things are beyond our comprehension, except that which He has made clear... Let's focus on those things and constantly bring each other back to the message of the gospel and how we can disciple others and be a disciple as we walk through this life.
In regards to unbelievers, Share the gospel, and leave the rest to the Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Blessings, Carla
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Roy,
You said: "I believe a case can be made that our salvation is dependent upon believing God's Word."
Could it be that in rejecting the six literal days of creation and God resting on the seventh day, one is rejecting Christ and His salvation?
I understand how someone may not fully understand all of these truths at the time of salvation. I'm just now, myself, beginning to see and understand this rest that we have in Jesus, Who is our sabbath, but what I don't understand is why we are so willing to allow others to continue believing lies after they have been born again simply because we think no one has to believe in anything that isn't essential to salvation so far as the act itself of being born again?
There are still essential doctrines that form the basis of Christian faith, and, in fact, the Scriptures themselves are all sound doctrine.
What does it mean to make disciples? I find it very ironic that we tell new believers who are asking questions about evolution that it's OK if someone doesn't accept the literal six days of creation since an opposing belief doesn't change the nature of God. Perhaps it's OK from a salvation perspective, but how is it OK to go on believing lies after being born again? Especially when the Spirit of Truth will guide us into all truth (John 16:13) and even more than this, when we are saved by grace through faith and this message of faith itself, sown from the seed of the Word of God, is said, when having fallen on good soil, to yield a crop?
The question is, do we really want to know the truth? I think for people in general, it's like the actor said in A Few Good Men, "You can't handle the truth!" LOL
At least, for me, it's been difficult at times to hear and accept the truth, and I think I'm not much different from others in that respect.
As LT clarified, "We are to still seek pure doctrine and stand for that which is true. Just because a person may not need to believe in a six day literal creation at salvation does not mean that we ignore the error of one believing in an old earth that includes evolution rather than God created all according to their own kind."
We are still to be learning and seeking truth after salvation, but, getting back to the statement you made, I think the six literal days of creation and God resting the seventh day is a very important foundational truth regarding our salvation. Perhaps I'm over-emphasizing its importance.
The following is excerpted from an article called, "How is Jesus our Sabbath rest?
"There is no other Sabbath rest besides Jesus. He alone satisfies the requirements of the Law, and He alone provides the sacrifice that atones for sin. He is God’s plan for us to cease from the labor of our own works. We dare not reject this one-and-only Way of salvation (John 14:6). God’s reaction to those who choose to reject His plan is seen in Numbers 15. A man was found gathering sticks on the Sabbath day, in spite of God’s plain commandment to cease from all labor on the Sabbath. This transgression was a known and willful sin, done with unblushing boldness in broad daylight, in open defiance of the divine authority. "And Jehovah said to Moses, ‘The man shall surely be put to death’" (v. 35). So it will be to all who reject God’s provision for our Sabbath rest in Christ. "How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation?" (Hebrews 2:3).
http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Sabbath.html
An article written by Ken Ham declares the following:
"In John 5:45–47, Jesus says, “Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?” In this passage, Jesus makes it clear that one must believe what Moses wrote. And one of the passages in the writings of Moses in Exodus 20:11 states: “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.” This, of course, is the basis for our seven-day week—six days of work and one day of rest. Obviously, this passage was meant to be taken as speaking of a total of seven literal days based on the Creation Week of six literal days of work and one literal day of rest."
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/did-jesus-say-he-creat...
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Beloved Amanda,
You make great points and i am in agreement with you, but these verses also come to mind (I know the context is referring to other things):
3The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.…
Romans 14:1
Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters.We want all to come to the true understanding about all matters pertaining to God and godliness, for ONLY the truth sets us free.
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David,
This is why I mentioned the part about being able to hear and accept the truth. Many have weak faith. The truth sets us free. Thankfully, we are all being set free. Quarreling is quite different from making disciples. In John 6:66 we see how people fall away after hearing truth and Jesus wasn't quarreling. Wasn't their faith weak? Jesus is truth. I trust God to take care of the spiritual growth of others and at the same time believe I shouldn't allow someone to continue on in a belief that is in error. I can disagree without quarreling, and I am learning how to speak the truth in love. I'm fighting the good fight. Love you, bro.
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Amanda :0)
Good words sis. Love back at you.
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CH Spurgeon said:
"In the case before us, we see that the preaching of the Lord Jesus Christ acted like a great winnowing machine. His nominal disciples were like a heap of wheat and chaff all mingled together on the threshing-floor. His words were like a mighty wind passing through the whole mass, separating the chaff from the wheat, and driving it away, and leaving only the good corn lying all around him. This leads me to say that apart from afflictions, temptations, and persecutions, the preaching of the gospel is in itself a means of dividing the true followers of Christ from those who are only his disciples in name; and wherever there is a faithful, Christlike ministry, you will find many going away from it for the very same reasons that those nominal disciples went away from Christ. “From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.”
Some went away from Christ because his doctrine was too mysterious. They heard his wondrous words only with their outward ears, and judging them in the letter, and not comprehending the spirit, of them, they said, This is a hard saying; who can hear it?”
http://www.apibs.info/chs/3210.pdf
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In another sermon, CHS said:
"The defection in this case was on account of doctrine. Our Savior had done nothing that could vex His followers; He had not even spoken sharply to His disciples. Far from it. He had simply preached the glorious Truth of God that He is the Food of the new-born life. But this they did not understand and so they would listen no further and would not stay to ask an explanation. They went back at once, as if horrified at what they heard. The Truth was too hard for them; it was not to be borne with. “It is a hard saying. Who can bear it?” A true disciple sits at the feet of his Master and believes what he is told even when he cannot quite comprehend the meaning, or see the reasons for what his Master utters. But these men had not the essential spirit of a disciple and, consequently, when their Instructor began to unfold the inner- most parts of the roll of Truth, they would not listen to His reading of it.
They would believe as far as they could understand, but when they could not comprehend, they turned on their heels and left the school of the Great Teacher."
http://www.spurgeongems.org/vols28-30/chs1646.pdf
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