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Evil, Sin and Suffering: God's Sovereignty Implies What to YOU?
God is said to be sovereign in all things. Easton's Bible Dictionary offers this definition: "Of God, his absolute right to do all things according to his own good pleasure." God's sovereignty: What does that mean to you, in your own words?
For God to be God, he needs to be sovereign or supreme, in control, in and over all things at all times. If he's not sovereign, he's not God. However, this raises a host of questions.
- If God is omniscient (all-knowing), then he knows everything that will happen to us (past, present and future), including natural disasters, wars, famines, etc. He must have known in advance that Adam and Eve would sin and the consequences of their actions that would follow.
- If God is perfectly holy, just and righteous, why would he allow evil, sin and suffering in the world?
- If God is omnipotent (all-powerful), he's capable of stopping such things from happening. He could defeat Satan utterly, completely, and in an instant. Why doesn't he?
- Why, then, does a sovereign God cause, allow, or permit evil, sin and suffering in the world?
In your own words, God's sovereignty implies what to YOU?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Colby,
God's sovereignty means to me that God knows exactly what's going on with me at ALL times. That everything that comes my way has gone first through the throne of Grace, which means, God is actively making something happen or passively using what other agents (pe0ple/angels) do (good and evil) to bring his desire will in my life. We are after all his workmanship.
...why would he allow evil, sin and suffering in the world?
Multiple reasons: I will venture in two just a two here. 1. He is establishing eternal principals both with angels and humans. The consequences and blessings of loving God or fighting him. 2. Our unrighteousness displays God's glory in multiple ways, but it will not always be like that. Whatever God's purposes are for us in the eternal future we need these lessons cemented in our hearts today.
New International Version (©1984)
But if our unrighteousness brings out God's righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.)New Living Translation (©2007)
"But," some might say, "our sinfulness serves a good purpose, for it helps people see how righteous God is. Isn't it unfair, then, for him to punish us?" (This is merely a human point of view.)English Standard Version (©2001)
But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.)Satan is a defeated foe who is allowed to roam just a bit more until the appointed time by God to bring all things to culmination according to His infallible word.
God's sovereignty implies to me primarily his caring hand in my life at ALL times. He is my Father and if I, an earthly father (human) know how to give good gifts and how to take care of my little ones, how much more my Lord who teaches me how to love my family.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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David,
Good word. You answered with wisdom.
You used the Word to help you answer ... why would he allow evil, sin and suffering in the world?
Wisdom is needed when it comes to the why questions. Many frown upon those who ask the why questions ... but I feel differently ... I think many just don't have the wisdom that is needed to give the answers. So they would rather tell people, Don't ask why. I believe it's OK to ask even when there appears to be no answer.
If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him (James 1:5, NIV). Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need (Hebrews 4:16, NIV). The answers will eventually come ... If not in this life, then one day coming ... Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known (1 Cor 13:12, NIV).
"What" questions are about gaining information.
What does God's sovereignty imply to me? "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away" 1 Cor 13:10, (KJB). That which is perfect is coming and nothing is able to stop it!
PS I realize the meaning of "that which is perfect" is debatable :) ... But I know you know what I'm saying.
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Permalink Reply by Colby on
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*/ God's sovereignty implies to me primarily his caring hand in my life at ALL times. /*
Thank you, David. This is edifying.
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Permalink Reply by Stephen King on
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God told Adam at the Garden of Aden, ' ....... for when you eat of it you will surely die'. So with liberty of choice there is accountability. That way, evil, sin and suffering are the consequences of a wrong choice made by Adam. Now God is omnipotent and able to stop such things from happening. He has done exactly that. Only that He has done it in His own way and His own time. The way of God out of it is Christ Jesus. According to Hebrews 2:14,15. He destroyed the Satan who holds the power of death. 1 Cor. 56 'The sting of death is sin and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.' Colossians 2:13-15. Jesus takes away the law that accuses us through forgiving our sins thereby disarming the principalities. Actually, the reason there is sin, evil and suffering is because God is holy and just. He did not lie to Adam when He told him that death would catch up with him if he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. These things are the symptoms of death. Where death reigns they are present. We are creatures and cannot judge God. God is original and before all things. Even logic and judgement.
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Permalink Reply by Maria Kristina Peterson on
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I can't say that I know exactly why God does what he does "For My thoughts are not your thoughts neither are My ways Your ways"NKJV but i do believe that He gaves us the gift of free will so perhaps he could have prevented evil and sin to be in the world but that would be like forcing someone to do something. If you were to force someone to love someone it wouldn't be really love because that person didn't choose to love but instead was forced. I just know that "all things work together for the good of those who love Him." and that we just need to trust that God knows what he is doing
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>>Why, then, does a sovereign God cause, allow, or permit evil, sin and suffering in the world?
I imagine God could have made the world a million different ways, but He chose to make it like it is because it serves his holy purposes and good pleasure. The way the world is must be the best possible way for the world to be, for God to establish his eternal purposes I suppose. We do not know the secret counsel of the Lord, but we do know that He is perfect and good.
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Permalink Reply by jen on
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wow i was just listening to a sermon from john and he was talking about this same thing! here it is if anyone wants to listen :) http://www.gty.org/MediaPlayer/podcast/6336
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Jen - Thank you for sharing sis. I love John's teaching. Again, thank you. It is good to see you here.
Blessings
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Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on
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When we give our life to the Lord,{give is the key there} we surrender all things to Him. In the Born Again heart we have a desire to serve Him. Surrender is the other key word. To yield self to Him; to yield our wills to Him. Filled with Holy Spirit, filled with Jesus, we are guided to "become Christ like." If we would but only humble ourselves completely, so many things would be easier. From here on I will try to focus on me, for I hesitate to speak for another. Because I have given my life to Jesus, to The Father, i become the servant He Is The Master. I have yielded to Him, I am the clay, He Is The Potter. He Knows what we need; He has always known what we need. Many times if we would but yield, we would get where and what we need to be Christ like. As for myself, I began to be HUMBLED. At one time I thought maybe I was called to "only be Humbled." After awhile I learned I had been given a Great Gift. Don't get me wrong I still have a long way to go. The Lord disciplines everyone He loves. He severely disciplines everyone He accepts as His child." Heb 12:6
To your point. In your own words, God's Sovereignty implies what to YOU? For me I have learned, to see "the enemy" as a tool to bring me to where I need to be. God's Love is so far beyond what we can understand, I simply chosen to accept, Trust, yield on and on. God's Sovereignty in the life of a willing and yielded child, has Complete Freedom. I believe and trust in His Love, to bring me to the place that fits into His Plan and Purpose. His Sovereignty is His. He can do whatever He wants. Do I think He is careless? Just sitting back and having fun at our expense? No and No. His Ways are so far beyond even our ability to understand; Way past my pay grade. Faith fits so Perfectly into All of this. I Trust His Love, for me it is the Only Truth I am 100% sure of. Do I still struggle? Yes. Do I understand and am I OK when hard and terrible events happen. No, not at first. And, I have times that the pain I feel is very strong. I stumble, I trip, I fall. Yet, armed with The knowledge that I am Loved. I am forgiven, and can ask for forgiveness. His Sovereignty Protects me, Guides me, so many other things. Yet, according to His Will and Purpose, I am becoming Christ like through all the things I am going through. Colby I hope and trust this made sense.
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In order to for love to be fully expressed, it must be done so completely freely otherwise it is meaningless. God wants us to love him so he gave us free will. Free will means (among other things) we can choose what we do, this is not just restricted to loving God. The consequences of having such freedom means we can choose to do things that are not so loving and very often do. There's also the issue of natural disasters. We're increasingly understanding how this world works and discovering that it needs to work this way to sustain life. Consequences of that are hurricanes, earthquakes and other similar events. These have been happening since the world began (however long ago you happen to believe that was) He could step in and stop these but he would be doing so at the expense of the way he designed us and the world to be; it's a judgement call God makes. Doesn't mean he hasn't influenced people or changed them but he's never forced it.
Another issue coming out of the OP is the nature of Omniscience and Omnipotence. A while I posted elsewhere (not sure if I put it here or whether I was still banned at that point) an extract from Keith Wards book which takes a look at these 2 attributes of God. I'll post it below in a second. I certainly do not agree that God causes suffering but he does allow it for some of the reasons I've put above.
The whole issue of suffering not an easy question to answer but one I get asked fairly frequently and I still don't know how to fully answer it. I've always found John Lennox to be very helpful on this matter. One such video is this. But one of the best discussions I've seen on this was between Gideon Rosen and John Lennox (it can be found here) They discussed a wide variety of related topics but they both give really good responses from their respective views.
Anyway, as promised, here's my post on omnipotence and omniscience;
Been reading Keith Ward lately over an ongoing discussion over whether God can/does/has changed his mind. Found the below in his book Why there almost certainly is a God It also links in with all the freewill discussions. Apologies for the long quote;
It looks as though God can know the future, change his mind, thereby proving himself wrong, and so causing big logical trouble. But the medieval theologians were very acute logicians, and readily produced many ways of making the definitions consistent. Resolving the alleged contradiction is easy. An eternal being cannot logically change its mind, so it is no restriction on omnipotence that God cannot change his mind. Even an omnipotent being cannot do what is logically impossible. That resolves the issue of contradiction. But as a matter of fact I prefer an alternative solution. The point is that a truly omnipotent being should be able to do new, original, creative things. Creativity and originality are great values, and it would be good for God to possess them. This is a value judgement that, surprisingly perhaps, only became widespread after the 16th century in Europe. Possibly it reflects the growing interest in the ability of technology to change the world for the better, whereas before that it was often assumed that all change was for the worse. As the Duke of Wellington once said, "Reform? Reform? Aren't things bad enough already?" As I previously argued, a being that is necessary in existence and in its essential nature could also be creatively free in many of its particular actions. If it is good for God to be creatively free, then it could well be necessarily true that God is creatively free. If God is creatively free, then God can "change his mind". In that case, omniscience must be taken to mean that God knows everything it is logically possible for one being to know. But no possible being could know what it has not yet decided, or perhaps what it has allowed other beings to decide freely. So there is still no problem with making omniscience and omnipotence consistent. It is perfectly reasonable to adopt a definition of omniscience such that "knowing everything possible" does not include things not yet decided (since that is not possible), and to adopt a definition of omnipotence such that "being able to do everything possible" does not include being able to do things that conflict with the necessary nature of God (like unutterably evil things). Then we can say that there are necessary limits on the things God, as an ultimately necessary being, can do. God cannot do absolutely anything. But since we do not know the inner nature of God, we can not know what the limits of divine necessity are. Presumably God cannot commit suicide, or do evil for its own sake, or change the past. God is nevertheless omnipotent, because God is the only source of finite existence, and can do the maximum that any possible being can do. What God cannot do is laid down by the necessities of the divine nature, which no possible being could evade. That is as much as we can reasonably ask of a definition of omnipotence.
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