Eternal Security "YES" You can be sure!

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Permalink Reply by Robert Browning on March 2, 2011 at 11:19pm

I appreciate everyone's opinion, but I would correct small detail.  Theology is personal belief and Doctrine is a Church or group of people who tells you have to worship or believe in God, such as Pharisees and Sadducees.  When it comes to Theology and Doctrine I like to be more exact. It is a small difference, but I do notice the difference.

Thank you and God Bless
Robert

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on March 2, 2011 at 11:56pm

Bro Rob-

 

Theology in the simplest form is the study of God and all things pertaining to God, so all of us who study the word of God are theologians. In its strictest form theology can be described like this:

 

Religion, the fear of God, must therefore be the element which inspires and animates all theological investigation. That must be the pulsebeat of the science. A theologian is a person who makes bold to speak about God because he speaks out of God and through God.
To profess theology is to do holy work. It is a priestly ministration in the house of the Lord. It is itself a service of worship, a consecration of mind and heart to the honour of His name.

 From Bavinck's Inaugural Address as Professor of Systematic Theology in the Free University of Amsterdam.

 

Theology is not personal belief when one is true to what theology is intended to be. Theology is the study of God by the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit to rightly divide the word of truth.

 

Not one text/verse above states that doctrine is what you defined it to be beloved, not one. Doctrine is simply a teaching found in scripture.

 

http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-theology.html

Question: "What is Christian Theology?"

Answer:  The word "theology" comes from two Greek words meaning "God" and "word." Combined, the word "theology" means "study of God." Christian theology is the study of what the Bible teaches and what Christians believe. Many believers treat Christian theology as something that is dividing, something that should be avoided. In actuality, Christian theology should be uniting! The Word of God teaches truth and we are to be united behind that truth. Yes, there are disagreements and disputes in Christian theology. Yes, there is freedom to disagree on the non-essentials of Christian theology. At the same time, there is much that Christians should be united over. A Biblically-based Christian theology will enable us to better understand God, salvation, and our mission in this world.

For some, the word “theologian” conjures up images of crusty old men poring over dusty volumes of ancient texts in dimly-lit rooms, studying things completely removed from real life. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Second Timothy 3:16 tells us that all Scripture is inspired by God, literally God-breathed, and is indispensable to us because it makes us complete, lacking nothing. To be a theologian is to be one who seeks the face of God in order to encounter the creator of the universe and His Son, Jesus Christ, and embrace Him as Lord of our lives, so that He becomes the center of our desires, affections and knowledge. This intimacy spreads into all aspects of our lives—thrilling us with its blessings, comforting us in times of loss, strengthening us in our weaknesses and upholding us to the end of our lives when we will see Him face to face. Scripture is God’s story and the more we study His Word, the better we know Him.

Below are the various categories of Christian theology. Understanding what the Bible says about the various areas of Christian theology is key to spiritual growth and effectiveness in the Christian life.

Theology Proper / Paterology - the study of God the Father.

Christology - the study of the Person and work of Jesus Christ.

Pneumatology - the study of the Person and work of the Holy Spirit.

Bibliology - the study of the Word of God.

Soteriology - the study of salvation through Jesus Christ.

Christian Anthropology - the study of the nature of humanity.

Hamartiology - the study of the nature and effects of sin.

Angelology - the study of angels.

Christian Demonology - the study of demons.

Ecclesiology - the study of the nature and mission of the church.

Eschatology - the study of the end times / last days.

 

Doctrine:
Although not in all cases, many people tend to use the word "Doctrine" in one way, which is "Doctrine equals Truth".

 

We have not only heard the word doctrine used, but many of us have used it to define our confidence in the truth of our faith. But what is doctrine, and does it always equal Truth? Let’s start out by looking at the word "Doctrine" so we can get a better understanding of the true meaning. The definition of "Doctrine" is something that is taught. A body or system of teaching relating to a particular subject such as the "doctrine of a Church". Doctrine doesn’t have to relate to a religion such as we see in what is called "The Monroe Doctrine". It’s the dogma or precept of any teachings true or false, sound (valid) or irrational (invalid). The word doctrine in the Greek is, didache (did-akh-ay'); and means instruction, or teaching. When doctrine is used in relation to the written word of God it’s used either as the doctrine of devils, the deceitful doctrine of men, or sound doctrine from God. So by this we see that there can be false doctrine put forth as truth in a Church.

Let's see how Jesus used the term doctrine.

Christ condemned the doctrine of the Pharisees because it was of human origin. "Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 'These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' "(NKJ throughout) and in Mark 7:7-9. "And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.' "For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men-- the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do." And He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition." We see by these scriptures that Jesus, 1) revealed that we can worship Him in vain if we are putting forth doctrines of men as if they are the commandments of God. 2) The doctrines of me had to do with the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things they did, which was many ceremonies.

 

The earliest true doctrine of the Christian church declared: (1) That Jesus was the Messiah, the Christ, Acts 3:18; (2) that God had raised Him from the dead Acts 1:22; 2:24,32; and (3) that salvation was by faith in His name Acts 2:38; 2:16. These three truths were presented as a clear fulfillment of the promises of the Old Testament. There was also the command by Jesus to baptize in His Name (Authority) Matt: 28; 18-20, and to preach the Kingdom of God and to heal the sick. Luke 9:2. Jesus did not come speaking his own doctrine, but only what He received from the Holy Father in heaven. Let's read this in John 7:15-16, and notice that the Jews knew Jesus did not go to their learning institutions. "And the Jews marveled, saying, "How does this Man know letters, having never studied?" Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine (teaching) is not Mine, but His who sent Me. Many years before Jesus came the first time God informed Moses that He would send a Prophet like him from among their brethren. God stated that He would even give This Prophet the very words he would speak. Just who was this future prophet, and has this prophesy been fulfilled? Let's read carefully what God had to say about this Prophet and what He would do. 'I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 'And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. Deut 18:18-19.

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on March 4, 2011 at 1:08pm

Robert, sorry to be a nit-picker, but I think that what you mean by "theology" is what Scripture calls a "private interpretation". True Doctrine is what scripture defines as the complete set of beliefs of the Prophets, the Apostles and the teachings of the Lord Jesus (aka Jesus' Doctrine). The entirety of the New Testament epistles are Apostolic Commentary on the Doctrine of Jesus. 

 

Theology, of course is defined as the Science of the Study of God. There can be (are) many divergent theologies, which many do contradict the Doctrine of Jesus. In a Christian sense, when we refer to Theology, we often mean to say doctrine. The core points of the doctrine that we are given in the New Testament gets defined into the Apostle's Creed. The meaning of those beliefs are fleshed out throughout the New Testament. 

 

The reason why the Apostles wrote commentary on Jesus' Doctrine was primarily because they were reaching out to a gentile audience that had little to no understanding of the Old Testament context and cultural nuance of Jesus' Doctrine. As I have recently said here on AAG Forum, the only Apostolic Commentary written to a Jewish audience was the book of Hebrews. 

 

Dogma, is what is defined as "personal belief (of) a Church or group of people who tells you have to worship or believe in God" ...(in such a way or another). Most of the time, when people say "doctrine" what they mean is the "dogma of my church" or of their order. But it is not the same as "Doctrine" defined in Scripture. 

 

blessings,

 

Scribe

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Permalink Reply by Robert Browning on March 4, 2011 at 3:03pm

Sorry for everyone's confusion about Theology and Doctrine.  These terms for me are old school.  Yes we should live our life under the teaching of Jesus Christ and would be the True Doctrine, but true is always in the eye of the beholder.  Each Denomination has there own Doctrine and there is over 22,000 from the last count.  Are they all wrong? No. Every denominations believe in there own doctrine under there own interpretation of God's Word. But most of them believe in the Basic of True Salvation.

 

Now Theology is hard to explain, without add more to the confusion.  Let me give you some examples:  The replacement Theology, which is that they believe since the Jewish people rejected Christ message.  God decided to choose the Gentiles as the chosen people.  I haven't found any scriptures that would support that. Then there is The Collective Salvation Theology, and my understanding of their belief is that they have to give up everything of value and help the least fortunate to be able to go to Heaven. The Bible teaches individual salvation.  There are several more, and then the Theologies get into Mormonism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam, and so on.

Dogma? I haven't heard of that in a long time. I have heard that usually relating Catholic beliefs, so since I wasn't sure, I decided to look it up, and here is the complete definition:

• Dogma

  doctrine, decree, ordinance of public decrees of the Roman Senate of rulers the rules and requirements of the law of Moses; carrying a suggestion of severity and of threatened judgment of certain decrees of the apostles relative to right living

 

I hope that helps, and I understand that people don't always agree with me, and that is alright.  We all will never know the whole truth about God, until that Glorious day we all meet in Heaven.

 

God Bless You all,

Robert

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on March 4, 2011 at 3:53pm

 

Bro Rob -

 

Thanks for your great attitude while discussing these issues with the rest of us. It is appreciated.

 

>>but true is always in the eye of the beholder. 

 

This should not be so. As children of the light and the truth - we firmly believe in "absolute truth," which is found in scripture. We endeavor to come to the unity of the knowledge of Christ. Truth is not and it should never be on the eye of the beholder, though I understand what you are conveying with that statement.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 10, 2011 at 12:48am

The Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter XVII

Of the [Preservation] Perseverance of the Saints

I. They, whom God has accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.[1]

II. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father;[2] upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ,[3] the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them,[4] and the nature of the covenant of grace:[5] from all which arises also the certainty and infallibility thereof.[6]

III. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins;[7] and, for a time, continue therein:[8] whereby they incur God's displeasure,[9] and grieve His Holy Spirit,[10] come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts,[11] have their hearts hardened,[12] and their consciences wounded;[13] hurt and scandalize others,[14] and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.[15]

 

[1] PHI 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. 2PE 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. JOH 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 1JO 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1PE 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

[2] 2TI 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. JER 31:3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

[3] HEB 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. HEB 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. ROM 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. JOH 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. LUK 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. HEB 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

[4] JOH 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 1JO 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1JO 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

[5] JER 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

[6] JOH 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 2TH 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 1JO 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

[7] MAT 26:70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest. 72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man. 74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.

[8] PSA 51 (the title) To the chief muscian, A psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba. 51:14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

[9] ISA 64:5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved. 7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities. 9 Be not wroth very sore, O Lord, neither remember iniquity for ever: behold, see, we beseech thee, we are all thy people. 2SA 11:27 And when the mourning was past, David sent and fetched her to his house, and she became his wife, and bare him a son. But the thing that David had done displeased the Lord.

[10] EPH 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

[11] PSA 51:8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice. 10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. 12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit. REV 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. SON 5:2 I sleep, but my heart waketh: it is the voice of my beloved that knocketh, saying, Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my undefiled: for my head is filled with dew, and my locks with the drops of the night. 3 I have put off my coat; how shall I put it on? I have washed my feet; how shall I defile them? 4 My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him. 6 I opened to my beloved; but my beloved had withdrawn himself, and was gone: my soul failed when he spake: I sought him, but I could not find him; I called him, but he gave me no answer.

[12] ISA 63:17 O Lord, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance. MAR 6:52 For they considered not the miracle of the loaves: for their heart was hardened. 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

[13] PSA 32:3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. 4 For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah. 51:8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

[14] 2SA 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

[15] PSA 89:31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; 32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. 1CO 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

 

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Permalink Reply by Craig Baker on February 10, 2011 at 7:01am

I love it, thanks David. There is much meat here to feed on and I will return to it often.

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on February 13, 2011 at 7:54pm

David, not sure if the scriptures that you have listed are part of the Westminster Confession, or are added by you. Thanks for sharing it either way. 

 

What I find most Christians make the mistake of is failing to distinguish between God's chastisement (for His children) and the Judgments that He brings upon those who reject His Son as Savior. They are two very different things, which your selections above makes the point well. 

 

I spent years in a church where we were taught that you could lose your salvation and that in fact most of us had lost our salvation at some time or another. I finally left that church when I read many of the scriptures you have shared above. However, my favorite, which you covered is Romans 8:33-39. But, even better, is simply to read the entire book of Galatians. This is the entire point of that book. 

 

As I understand it, the books of Hebrews and Galatians indicate that the only thing that could cause us to lose our salvation, if such a thing is possible, is if a person were to be saved (that is born again of the Spirit) and to then reject the grace of God by rejecting Christ and going back to Temple worship in spite of knowing the clear revelation that Jesus is the Son of God and our only Savior.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 10, 2011 at 11:31am

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