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does bible consistently show that when people FIRST recieve Holy Spirit they will speak in tongues?
this topic is controversial so lets get what bible says.. many people point out 1 cor 12 and 14 showing that Not all speak in tongues to prove that not everyone will speak in tongues when they recieve the Holy SPIRIT to dwell in them for salvation. the only problem wiht using those scriptures is that is will contradict what happened in acts 8, 10, and 19. because the instructions for USING GIFT OF TONGUES was that 2 at MOST 3 should speak in tongues.. one at a time and there MUST be interpreter.. therefore in those chapters we obviously see that was not the case because THEY ALL spoke in tongues.. and didnt have an interpreter let alone who would he be interpreting it for.. in acts 19 paul was there.. he wouldnt allow them to be out of order and go against his own instruction.. so therefore we must conclude ther are DIFFERENT FUNCTIONS of speaking in tongues.. could one of the functions be to SHOW PROOF one has now recieved the holy spirit? how can we rule this out.. now i spoke in tongues when recieved holy spirit for first time, but i do not have the gift of speaking in tongues in the church to deliver message.. two different functions.. now i have prayed and began to speak in tongues a few times but not all the time.. so how can we disclaim the evidence of speaking in tongues
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Dane Harris on
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LT...I agree with everything you said, it was like an answer to my prayers. I have one question.
If one could recieve the Holy Spirit without speaking in tongues and still be saved at the moment they believed, why did Paul ask people if they had recieved the Spirit at the time that they believed. Doesnt this tell us that 1. There is some kind of unmistakeable event that takes place and 2. it is possible to believe and not recieve the spirit?
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Hi Dane,
I know this question was directed towards LT.. and I know He will answer....but I happened to be online, so please forgive me for jumping in here.. I believe that we find the answer to this in
Galations 5:22,23
But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. There is so law against these things.
We are also told this:
Mat 7:16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn {bushes} nor figs from thistles, are they?
Mat 7:17 "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
Mat 7:18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
Mat 7:19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits.
The context here is being alert to false teachers... Jesus is teaching about the fruit in people's lives. I believe it also applies to anyone who does not have the Holy Spirit.
The unmistakeable event that takes place is a change of the heart and mind. Where once we were enemies of God...now, we are His friends (Matt 15:15) we are His beloved (1 John 3:2). We desire to live for Him now...our sin becomes repulsive to us as it is to God.
When we believe we receive the Holy Spirit.. but this is not characterized soley by the gift of tongues...but rather by the fruit in our lives...It is characterized by our Love for God and for others.
1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
1Jo 4:8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
God makes it very clear that we know Him if we have love for Him and for others. People who are not saved do not love God nor do they desire to live for Him.
If I am using these verses out of context, or if I am wrong, I want to be corrected. I look forward to hearing LT's answer to your question.
Okay LT... jump in here!
Blessings, Carla
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Thanks, Carla!
One thing I feel that was not addressed is the possibility that Paul leaves open to believe and not to receive the Holy Spirit...I believe that this is left open when he says "and when you believed, did you receive the Holy Spirit?"
Why would he ask that if he knew that everyone who believed receives upon salvation?
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Hi Dane,
I believe that Paul would have raised this because He was (and is) admonishing all believers to examine themselves.... Paul says this in 2 Corinthians:
2Cr 13:5 Test yourselves {to see} if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you--unless indeed you fail the test?
I believe he asks it in the form of a question so that we examine ourselves and not fail the test... Paul Washer has an incredible teaching on how we must examine ourselves...
This is off topic here...but I will post it just in case you are interested...
Blessings, Carla
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Carla,
Good response. The only difference is the recognizing the two seperate acts. The first being that one is indwelt at salvation and God does begin to work in us and bring about the changes as seen in the Fruit of the Spirit. The second is being filled with the Holy Spirit and being empowered to overcome the flesh and live for God empowered to accomplish His pupropse for our lives and to see the inner change manifested in outward actions.
Often times we find a believer going through repetatvie attempts to live right and experiencing repetative failure. They love Jesus but are trying to do it on their own. When one is filled with the Spirit of God then the Spirit of God empowers one to live out the Christian life as we surrender to Him. You will still face trials and setbacks, but have the strength and power of God to overcome these things and to subdue the flesh that wars against us. There are various terms used for being filled with the Holy Spirit. Where I come from it is part of Sanctification in ones life. I need to qualify one thing regarding this. It is both a crisis and progressive. The crisis happens when we recognize our futile attempts to live for Jesus and the fact that we keep failing. Sometimes we simply recognize that there is more to our life with Christ than we are currently experiencing. We know that something (or someone) is missing. After the crisis and the event of sanctification we step into the progessive phase. In this we experience the life long growth process under the guidance and strength of the Holy Spirit. I was saved at age 5, but not sanctified until age 32. Two distinct acts of God.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Hey Dane,
I would respond by acknowledging that there are two parts to this. At salvation a believer is changed (2 Cor. 5:17) and the Holy Spirit comes into that new believer’s life as a deposit guaranteeing what is to come (2 Cor. 1:22). The Holy Spirit indwells the believer at salvation, but the believer lacks power to live effectively for Christ. The indwelling is different than the manifested presence that is experienced when one is filled with the Spirit of God. There are various terms for this, but in my theology it is called sanctification. Thus, what we have is the initial indwelling that marks us and sets us apart for God. There is a need to be filled with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 5:18). This is the empowerment of God to live a higher Christian life for Christ as the Holy Spirit lives the Christ life through us as we surrender control to Him.
In the example of Paul we see that they believed, thus they are new creatures in Christ and marked (indwelt) with the Holy Spirit. Paul is recognizing that they have not been taught the deeper truth regarding being filled with the Holy Spirit. When they are taught this truth and embrace it they are filled with the Spirit of God.
Some believe that you are filled at salvation. One can be filled at salvation, but more often we find that it is during a later act of grace that one comes to the point of surrender and being filled with the Holy Spirit. Apollos is a good example of this in Acts 18:24-28. He believed in Jesus, taught the Word, but was not aware of the deeper-spirit filled life.
In relation to your last question I would state that no one can be a believer and not have the Spirit of God living in them. A person can believe and not be filled with the Spirit, two different things.
Hope this helps.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Thanks LT.
I get what you are saying. I guess I just dont understand why Romans would say that you do not belong to Christ if you do not have his spirit, if it was not possible to believe and not have his spirit.
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Dane,
For clarity it is not possible to be a born-again believer and not have the Holy Spirit living in you. There is a difference between having the Holy Spirit living in us as a deposit guaranteeing what is to come and being filled with the Holy Spirit. Thus, Romans is correct when it speaks of if you do not have the Spirit of God you are not His.
Lord Bless,
LT
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what is the difference of holy spirit living in us AS DEPOSIT AND BEING FILLED.. can you prove that with using ACTS 10:44-48 and ACTS 19:1-6 and ACTS 8:12-17.. your statement of them being different should be able to be explained using these. i will be waiting. thank you.. ( i do want to say when a person is "filled" or "baptized" with the spirit that is WHEN THEY FIRST RECIEVE THE HOLY GHOST AND ARE SEALED.. so there is no difference.. when one gets BAPTIZED WITH SPIRIT THATS WHEN THEY ENTER BODY OF CHRIST AND ARE SEALED.
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