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Do we Possess three entities namely a "Body" "Soul" and "Spirit"?
I need to hear from members on AAG, what they understand by the terms "Body" "Soul" and "Spirit" Let's look forward to a lively discussion as to your impression and beliefs on the subject.
"Do men and women possess three entities, namely a "Body" that possesses a "Soul" and a "Spirit"?
The Lord Bless all on AAG
Ron.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on
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I checked my various KJVs in my Libronix system and none of them ask a question. "Shalt thou" and "thou shalt". "Shalt thou" is making a firm declaration as someone who is in control would say. Either is a statement. When we think that Jesus asks a question of the thief on the cross, I think we err. To me, Jesus is making a clear statement not asking a question. However, I think we also need to know that the Bible contains no errors. To presume it does calls the Word of God a lie, not to be believed.
If it were a question, why would Jesus ask it? There would be no reason. He above all, knows what the qualifications were for paradise. Having said that, I have to believe that He was giving the thief assurance of salvation, by the thief's declaration and defense of Him.
Regarding what the disciples saw on the Mount of Transfiguration Strong's Greek Lexicon defines it this way:
3705 ὅραμα [horama /hor·am·ah/] n n. From 3708; TDNT 5:371; TDNTA 706; GK 3969; 12 occurrences; AV translates as “vision” 11 times, and “sight” once. 1 that which is seen, spectacle. 2 a sight divinely granted in an ecstasy or in a sleep, a vision.
Strong, James: The Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible : Showing Every Word of the Text of the Common English Version of the Canonical Books, and Every Occurrence of Each Word in Regular Order. electronic ed. Ontario : Woodside Bible Fellowship., 1996, S. G3705
This definition tells me that a "vision" would be the secondary meaning of the word, because it is placed second in a choice of two.
4 And Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good that we are here. If you wish, I will make three tents here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.”
The Holy Bible : English Standard Version. Wheaton : Standard Bible Society, 2001, S. Mt 17:3-4
Would Peter have offered to do this if it were a vision instead of a real occurance?
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Permalink Reply by JB on
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Hello everyone,
I tried to read all of the responses that were posted on the subject “Spirit, Soul and body” However I got almost through all of them and then jumped to the 15th one and it seemed we have gotten away from the original subject, But I marvel at how we as humans trying to understand the Word of God, that is Spirit with our intellects, trying to make some kind of logical sense out of it, that man can comprehend intellectually, when the Bible states that the “Word is Spirit and life“, It also says in 1Cor.2 that “the natural man, “your intellect“ receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them for they are spiritually discerned….., ”
So regardless of how spiritually we think we are, we still try to understand the Word of God with our intellect; just to find it more confusing and at times will just say, “ well the Bible is just too hard to understand’, and will give up on it. But if we would just let the Spirit lead us.
But I find that most people will be led by what some man has told them as truth and not study it out for themselves, and as they read, they will try to line up everything they read by what someone else has told them, and that becomes their truth, and their whole understanding will be based on what they thought was truth. Until they come up against something that just doesn’t quite fit their theology, then comes confusion.
I would like to keep this as brief as possible, but I know I get a little long winded at times trying to get a point across.
First the way I see it, God did indeed make man out of the dust of the earth. However the earth at that time had not fallen in to sin, or rather the earth had not been cursed yet, therefore Adam was created, from a pure dust, one that had no curses in it, There were no thorns or thistles before the earth was cursed. Which would be death to the earth,(seperation from God) as Adam was, When He said that the day ye eat of this fruit, ye shall surely die, he did, Spiritually, seperation from God, which would be the first death, the second death is total seperation from God, which is Hell. The cessation of this life is not the second death, I think this is where some will get the idea of soul sleep; between the first and the second death. We as Christians have escaped the second death, not the first death, because we were all partakers of the first death with Adam when he fell.
When God created Adam out of the dust of the earth, he was nothing but , as someone said earlier, just a dead body, until God breathed the breath of life in him, and he became a living soul, So he had a Spirit, Soul and a body, However I don’t think, as we see the soul as being the mind, will and emotions plus the conscience, Though he was conscious, he had nothing in his soul, (forgive my crude way of putting it), but he had no experience in anything and therefore he knew nothing through the five physical senses to teach his brain or soul anything, ie if something was hot or cold. I’m sure he had feelings, but how would he know if he liked or disliked something if he had never experienced it before. How many times have you tried to eat something that someone told you that it was good for you, only to find out later that it was detrimental to your health? Thank God for His mercy, Adam didn’t have that privilege did he? What if we sinned one time and was cast out from the presence of God because of it? We wouldn’t be discussing this would we?
Now the Bible says that “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself“. It says, “in Him was life and that life was the light of men. “Jo.1:4” In other words He brought “illumination” to mankind.
Boy I wanted to make this short, BUT. There is so much to discuss on this subject.
Now when we were born again, it was our Spirit that got born again, not our soul or flesh. (body) The word “flesh” can also be interpreted as “a way of thinking” Like if you are walking after the flesh, you are walking according to the way you are thinking, by what you see, feel taste, smell or hear. The five physical senses.
To walk after the Spirit, we will be walking according to the Word of God, which is Spirit. So it is when you want to see what you look like you will look into a mirror, to see if your hair is combed or the make-up is on right, It still does not tell you how you feel, your body will tell you how you feel, if you are sick or just feel aching joints etc. But to know how you are in the Spirit, you can only tell by looking into our spiritual mirror, “The Word of God” Now this is where a lot of people get confused, about spiritual things, they will think because they can’t feel or see it, it just isn’t there.
So let us look at a few things here, You can feel both your body and your soul, if I put my hands on your shoulder, you would know that I touched you. However, I can also touch you whether I’m physically near you or not. By speaking to your soul, I can make you glad, sad or mad. Through my words I could “hurt” you without physically touching your body. It’s easy to know how you feel in your body and soul because you are constantly in touch with them!
By taking a mental inventory, your body can instantly tell you how it feels. You know if your adrenaline is pumping, if your tired, if you’re healthy or fighting a cold, if your head aches, or if the shower’s just right. In fact, you don’t even really have to think about it, because your body constantly feeds you such information.
You can also check your soul and know right away how you’re doing. It’s easy to tell if you are happy or hurt, mentally worn out or sharp and ready to go, or just plain angry. You would even be aware of fear or depression if it came, because you are always in touch with your soul.
However your spirit cannot be accessed in any natural way. Jesus declared: Jo.3:66 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
He meant that there’s no direct connection between the two. They are interrelated, but spirit is spirit, and flesh is flesh. You simply cannot contact your spirit through your emotions or your physical body. Herein lies one of the great problems of the Christian life!
If you don’t understand that spiritual reality can’t be felt, then you will be confused when God’s Word declares that you have the same power that raised Jesus from the dead .
( Eph.1:18-20 If you think truth can be discerned through your natural senses, then you will be baffled when the bible says that you are a brand-new creature who can do the same miraculous works that Jesus did (2Cor.5:17 and John 14:12). Without understanding Spirit, soul and body, you will search your body and soul in bewilderment wondering, Where is it? I don’t really have that kind of power in me. The bible is so hard to understand and so on! If you can’t see, taste, hear, smell, or touch what the Word reveals about you, you will immediately be thrown into conflict. This apparent disparity between your experience and God’s Word will cause you to throw up your hands in frustration and conclude, “It must not be true!”
Understanding spirit, soul and body unlocks the spirit realm so you can experience who you are and what you have in Christ!
Since the spirit realm can’t be naturally seen or felt, the only way to accurately perceive spiritual truth is through the Bible. Simply take God’s word and believe it!
Jesus said: “It is the spirit that quickened; the flesh profited nothing : the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life” (John 6:63)
God’s Word reveals spiritual reality. If you want to know what your spirit is like, you must find out from the Word. You can’t just go by emotion or some other type of perception. God’s Word is spirit and life!
When you look into the Bible, you behold yourself in the spirit.
(James 1:23-25)
“ for if any be a hearer of the Word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway fretted what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty [God’s Word -- specifically the New Testament], and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed”
God’s Word is a spiritual mirror!
When you look at your face in a mirror, you aren’t really seeing yourself. Rather, you are viewing a reflection. In fact your eyes have never looked directly into your own face. Think about it---- you have always seen a reflection! Even though it’s only a representation, you have learned to trust it.
If you want to know if your hair is combed or if your makeup is on, you don’t just go by how you feel. Since those things can’t be felt, you must look in a mirror and then trust what you see. It’s the same with your born again spirit!
God’s Word perfectly reflects who you are in the spirit. It’s the only way you can know. You Can’t just assume “If I had God’s power inside of me, I would be aware of it,” because that which is Spirit is spirit and that which is flesh is flesh! It would be like trying to feel if your makeup was on or if your hair was combed. Those things just can’t be felt! You must look in God’s mirror and trust the spiritual reality you see!
I have a lot more on this, but I am aware that it is getting very long and most peoples attention span will not allow them to take in all of this at one time and will miss some of the most important parts.
So may God Bless and teach us the truths of His Word.
Your friend in Christ,
Joe
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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on
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Hi Joe,
Please read your opening address and then read your own comments again.
As far as I can tell you have argued your points with your intellect, using the
Bible, exactly the same way as everyone else has done.
Blessings Joe
Ron.
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Thanks Ron, for your quick reply,
I have re-read it and I also noticed, I did not exclude myself as being one that will also use his intellect at times to try and understand the Word of God; Knowing when I do, I have been looking at other resources, books, translations, the dictionary, etc. trying to get a handle on what is being said, by seeing how others perceive it; rather than diligently seeking God before responding. Thanks for expressing your opinion, at least I know you read it.
I might ask, is there other parts of what was said that you disagree with?
Blessings as well to you Ron
Joe
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Hi Joe,
As Ron has said ..you have argued your points using your intellect as we all have...However, God has given us an intellect...and we are to use it..as long as we are subjecting everything to God's Word.... as you have done.
As a matter of fact, I understand this more clearly by how you have explained it...so thank you for responding.
This is the outline (I need things to be kept simple) :)
Body--the part made of dust that dies (linked to our physical senses and appearance)
Soul--how one 'feels'.. (emotions--sad, happy, stressed...etc)
Spirit--God's Word.. The Truth of Scripture. This has nothing to do with our 5 senses, our appearance, or our feelings).
This makes sense to me.... Thanks Joe! :)
Blessings, Carla
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Joe - Excellent work my friend. Good to have you among us. I see Carla and Ron all ready brought up what was going to be my one concerned. But as Carla wrote - you have balanced it correctly by subjecting all to God's word.
Again beloved - I enjoyed reading your break down. I am glad there is someone else as long winded hahaha as i get some times.
Mark 12:30
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'
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Hi Rita,
"Shalt thou be with me in Paradise" as in "Will you be with me in Paradise" are questions not statements.
That's why those who believe in Soul Sleep when translating the verse into English HAVE to change the wording around from "Will you be with me in Paradise" to "You will be with me in Paradise"
Your question "Would Peter have offered to do this if it were a vision instead of a real occurance"is a good one
and is a part of progressive revelation as I said to Eric.
Ron.
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Permalink Reply by Imperator on
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My dear brother Joe,
Excellent! If the others don't mind I'd like to hear more from your perspective.
It looks like you are a theologian and a scholar.
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@Tim
I don't understand, what do you believe?
You said, "So now we come to the question at hand: Did Lazarus and the rich man die yet keep on living? Was Abraham dead about 2000 years and yet not dead? According to the scriptures cited above, and many others, that is not possible. So what lesson was Jesus teaching with this illustration?" (emphasis mine)
But Jesus said, "But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken." (Mark 12:26,27 NASB)
Was Abraham dead, and yet not dead? According to God, yes.
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Hi Tim,
I don't have a lot of time right now...
but regarding this comment:
The Bible, however, records the death of many, many individuals, and none of them report that the person had gone home to heaven. There were some really righteous characters written about in the Bible, but not one soul went winging off to heaven. Interesting.
This scripture tells us otherwise:
Hbr 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Carla
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