Commands

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Permalink Reply by Seek on March 9, 2015 at 3:22am

The meaning followed. Christ fulfilled the law...He ended it. He became the final sacrifice for sin. Sacrifices were made regularly to keep people observing the law. They were a reminder of a need for repentance and forgiveness. Jesus became the final sacrifice and wrote the laws on our hearts so we have a constant reminder inside.

Let me ask you two things. First what is sin?

Since we're repeatedly told do not worry, isn't this a command from God? So if one even has a moment of worry they just sinned. Are they going to hell? Say you love God with all your heart and a robber puts a gun to your head and immediately a fear rises up. And before you can realize not to fear and repent, He pulls the trigger. Do you go to hell because you died doing what Jesus said not to do?

You need to clarify your stance on sins as has been asked before. When you just say obey, you're leaving questions like those, causing people to fear eternity in hell over one slip or fall which places a yoke on people they cannot bare.

If you're speaking only of the 10 Commandments, this is my second question:

Honor your father and your mother. - Have you ever disagreed with your parents and got upset with them? Was that honoring?

You shall not murder. - Whoever hates has murdered already. Have you ever felt anger rise against a person before you realized and prayed on it?

You shall not steal. - Ever take a pen?

You shall not covet - Ever see anything someone had and had a bit of envy over it before realizing your thoughts and repenting?

You posted above: if we look at 1 John 2:4 it states: The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

I ask you to flip back a page.

1 John 1:8 (KJV)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

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Permalink Reply by thewatchman on March 9, 2015 at 5:16am

Where did I say that I had no sin?

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 9, 2015 at 6:26am

You asked, Which commands of Christ Jesus are important and which are not necessary for our salvation?

Then you answered, Although I will disagree on the question I asked about "Is obedience necessary for salvation?"
I do not believe that it only is provided to give us assurance, because if we look at 1 John 2:4 it states: The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

The problem here is that even if you aren't intending it to be that way, the message that is coming across to your readers is that you are advocating works and obedience FOR salvation in the sense of making salvation based upon your works instead of based upon the finished work of Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection which is the gospel of Christ. We don't keep commandments for salvation. In fact, we aren't to follow the written code. We follow the leading of the indwelling Holy Spirit which we received after being given a new spirit and a new heart. See Ezekiel 36:26-27. Holy Spirit causes us to walk in His ways and keep His statutes. Causes means:

1. To be the cause of or reason for; result in.
2. To bring about or compel by authority or force: The moderator invoked a rule causing the debate to be ended.
[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin causa, reason, purpose.]
caus′a·ble adj.
cause′less adj.
caus′er n.
Synonyms: cause, reason, occasion, antecedent
These nouns denote what brings about or is associated with an effect or result. A cause is an agent or condition that permits the occurrence of an effect or leads to a result: "He is not only dull in himself, but the cause of dullness in others" (Samuel Foote).
Reason refers to what explains the occurrence or nature of an effect: There was no obvious reason for the accident.
Occasion is something that brings on or precipitates an action, condition, or event: "Injustice provides the occasion for change" (Alan Dershowitz).
Antecedent refers to what has gone before and implies a relationship—but not necessarily a causal one—with what ensues: Some of the antecedents of World War II lie in economic conditions in Europe following World War I.
American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cause

The new creation has a new identity that is found in Christ Jesus. No longer is one who has become a new creation known by what they do or don't do but by who they know - Jesus. No longer are they known as liars, thieves, etceteras.



If you are guided by the Spirit, you won't obey your selfish desires. The Spirit and your desires are enemies of each other. They are always fighting each other and keeping you from doing what you feel you should. But if you obey the Spirit, the Law of Moses has no control over you. People's desires make them give in to immoral ways, filthy thoughts, and shameful deeds. They worship idols, practice witchcraft, hate others, and are hard to get along with. People become jealous, angry, and selfish. They not only argue and cause trouble, but they are envious. They get drunk, carry on at wild parties, and do other evil things as well. I told you before, and I am telling you again: No one who does these things will share in the blessings of God's kingdom. God's Spirit makes us loving, happy, peaceful, patient, kind, good, faithful, gentle, and self-controlled. There is no law against behaving in any of these ways. And because we belong to Christ Jesus, we have killed our selfish feelings and desires. God's Spirit has given us life, and so we should follow the Spirit. But don't be conceited or make others jealous by claiming to be better than they are. (‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭16-26‬ CEVUS06)

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Permalink Reply by Carla on March 9, 2015 at 7:03am

Good Word Amanda.

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on March 9, 2015 at 7:20am

What do you do with the person that consistently fails? Do you say that this person just doesn't really love God? Samson seemed to fail over and over and over again and the same with David. Was David a believer and did his faith save him from his failures? I say, "yes." What do you say? 

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Permalink Reply by Carla on March 9, 2015 at 7:30am

Hi Roy.. Just clarifying..  Who are you asking?  :-)

What do I do with the person that consistently fails? I Point them to God's Forgiveness and Grace.  some people will take advantage of Grace, but that doesn't make the truth of Grace a lesser truth.  I would tell them that repentance brings freedom and humility, and is a great gift.

:-)

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 9, 2015 at 7:51am

Roy,

As the passage from Galatians which I quoted says, the desires of the flesh do get in the way. We will battle the flesh lifelong and win and lose battles with it, hopefully losing less and less as we mature and become stronger in Christ Jesus.

There's no doubt that God hates the wicked and that God will be as much glorified by their destruction through experiencing God's wrath as God was glorified by the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ Who experienced God's wrath as a Substitute for those whom God saves. 

In my POV, since the lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, God is only seeking and saving those whom He foreknew. They are His friends, even when they were separated from God and dead in their sins, for, to God, Who sees the end from the beginning, it is already a done deal. John 15:13

I think, for those who are truly in Christ, then they will truly hate sin and truly want to stop sinning and truly long for the day when they will no longer battle the flesh or temptation. There's a difference between supporting a "sinning Christian doctrine" and humbly admitting that one's flesh wants what it wants and one sometimes gives in to it even though God always provides a way out.

Saint Paul never forgot that he had sinned against God and had obtained mercy. He felt that the grace of The Lord was abundant in saving him, and said that his salvation was a pattern to them which should believe on Him to life everlasting. He certainly fought the good fight, and I'm sure some of that fight included the battle between spirit and flesh as well as enduring the hardships and persecutions and many trials as he proclaimed the gospel of Christ. 

I know that when Jesus died on the cross, He had to feel the weight of sin that is committed and if you are one of His, one Whom He foreknew, then He saw you personally and saw your life and felt the weight of every sinful act you have personally committed, or might yet commit, from birth to death, and I don't know what the full wrath was that He endured, but I know it means each sin that you commit from this moment on is another sin He felt and paid for on the cross. So if you stop sinning now, it would mean His suffering was less. Who wouldn't want to stop? Who wouldn't feel bad for sinning? Who wouldn't want to change?

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on March 9, 2015 at 8:17am

Either one, Carla. Good answer. We have to be so careful as to not take any glory for our salvation. It all goes to God. If we receive any glory, then we become greater than or equal to God. That cannot be. All glory goes to God. We all need all that Jesus did - none less or none more. You cannot be more saved than saved. I try my best to live right but completely understand that does not make me more saved. I am saved totally by God's grace and by nothing that I have done or achieved. Some do appear to be more obedient (whether or not they are, I don't know); however, none are more saved. When He saves us, He saves us from all our sin. Sin shall have no more dominion over us. Sin doesn't determine who we are or aren't. Sin is no longer master. Sin remains master over all those who have not turned to Him in faith. The believer is not judged by his sin, he is judged by the righteousness of Jesus. He will never be on the short end. When the Bible says that sin will have no more dominion over us, that does not mean that we will no longer sin. That is foolish. We all sin. We all come short. Jesus is our salvation. Sin doesn't determine our final destiny - the work of Jesus determines that. 

This doesn't mean that it is okay to sin. Sin still brings us harm but it does not take away that which has been freely given us in Jesus Christ - our Savior and our God. 

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Permalink Reply by Carla on March 9, 2015 at 8:55am

Yes.  Amen.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 9, 2015 at 10:33am

Amen, Roy. Obedience can come from a wrong motive and isn't a synonym for love. Jesus didn't say, If you keep my commandments, you love me. I don't think the message is found anywhere in Scripture that obedience is love. What is found is that a genuine love for God obeys God, as faith in God expresses itself through love. Even 1 John 2:3 points to obedience as only being evidence that one has a relationship with God, not that it is causing the relationship or making it continue. 1 John 4:13 gives another evidence -- having Holy Spirit.

Permalink Reply by thewatchman on March 9, 2015 at 6:29pm

1 Thess. 2

1For yourselves, brethren, know our entrance in unto you, that it was not in vain: 2But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention. 3For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile: 4But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts. 5For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness: 6Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ. 7But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children: 8So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.

9For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God. 10Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe: 11As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children, 12That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

13For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. 14For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: 15Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: 16Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

17But we, brethren, being taken from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured the more abundantly to see your face with great desire. 18Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us. 19For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? 20For ye are our glory and joy.

1 Thess. 4:  1-7

1Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. 2For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.3For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; 5Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: 6That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. 7For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. 8He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

 

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Permalink Reply by Seek on March 9, 2015 at 6:38am

If that's all you took from that, then we'll have to end here.

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