Can a openly gay person enter heaven?

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Permalink Reply by agatha on November 11, 2009 at 5:21am

no need for confusion. i was definately directing it to Pastor Tonex. Even if he won't read it, at least ive expressed the truth

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Permalink Reply by GAD_578 on November 14, 2009 at 4:13pm

Final judgement comes at the End of the Lord's day, after a (1000 yrs) time of discipline void of flesh and temptations of the evil forces. The Fact remains that one embraceing homosexulaity is embracing rebellion against God (both physiaclly and spiritually) and is not in good standing nor do they have an ongoing relationship with Christ.
God is the judge, all are sinners and have need of the sacrifice and repentance.

Homosexuality is a sickness and according to the Word, some are born into the flesh with this sickness (Matthew 19:12 ) becuase of their spiritual ways before birth.(Other are made that way by men and other become that way). God tells us they have such lusts because they do not like to retain God in their knowledge and when they knew of the truth they did not walk in it. ***Rom.1:21-32 ***

God is Love and no sane person can use the context of Love to enable such a sickness. Sexuality has nothing to do with love but everything to do with physical attraction and or Lust.

During times of the new covenant (Grace= unmerited favor) I do feel disfellowship (Matt. 18:15-20 / compare with Deut. 19:15-21; 17:2-13) replaces captial punishment (Leviticus 20:13) when it comes to effects of homosexual actions.
****1 Cor.6:9-11 ****
"death" is replaced by "disfellowshipment" / "dead to us", cut off from our community

For "Christians" to enable another to transgress God's law (to sin) is to partake in their evil deeds.- 2 John 1:10-11/ If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Spiritual Discernment is differ than Judgement and is a gift all theat walk with the holy Spirit are given (they are able to recognise the fruits of both the wheat and the tares). One can forgive another without haveing to surround themselves with that one. Christ gathered with sinners who had interest and respect for the Word and thus we are to mark those who do not.

One should love their enemies and Family is Very important. The statistics of suicides amoung homosexuals are high, and a Christian is concerned for all and hope all grow closer to God. We are taught many tactics and virtues in God's Word / Examples: Spiritual discernment, Rebuke, patience and so on... but Love is above all these and is to be used with all these. Some perhaps haven't read how Love is used with rebuke and spiritual discernment which is another study that perhaps needs to be touched on here. But the point is to Hate the sin not the sinner.
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Leviticus 18:22(-30)Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Deuteronomy 23:17 There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (*11) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (Note the term effeminate!)
1 Timothy 1:9-10 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.


Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
I personally wouldn't attend a same sex marriage ceremony, cause to do so would be showing support to those who pleadge to sin.
(I once put this forth only to have someone say, "would you attend a marriage of someone who has once been divorced" / The responce to such should be in the context of God's Word as well. Each person is to have an individual relationship with God. We don't know if one has repented of past transgressions or not but if they have a Christian is to know that they are forgiven and it isn't our place to judge!) Again a same sex marriage is a unclean pleadge to live rebelious to God's Word and one interested in keeping a ongoing relationship with God should never support such.

There are gendar roles. example:
Deuteronomy 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God. (parable- Spiritual and physical context)
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James 1:13-15 (King James Version)
13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Again we are told why some are born with such unclean lusts and woe to anyone who claims to know such is unclean yet blames God for such a sickness. Such people are in need of more understanding.
To anyone seeking Spiritual growth and yet finds them selves blaming God for anything desperatly needs to consider Jer.23 and mainly note the effects of such in verses 39-40
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Rev.3:19-As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Prov. 1:7 says: The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Do note the unpardonable sin though! This sickness is found on a thin line close to it and amoung those who have been known to deny the Holy Spirit. Some have the Spirit of slumber for a good reason for to know better and commit a transgression is far worse than one who commits the same not knowing better. ** Gal.5:16-26 **

We have both a flesh body and a spirit body 1 Cor.15:44 (Rom.10:17 Matt.4:4 Luke 4:4) One shall over power the other (all sin) and thus we should seek to feed the spirit more than the flesh. We feed the Spirit with God's Word (Christ)! Yeshua Christ is the Light and The way. To not embrace and partake of the sacrifice one is embraceing death (Heb.2:14).

P.S.- to any that embrace homosexuality, Repent and be about God's buisness. Keep an ongoing relationship with God and practice discipline.
Shalom

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Permalink Reply by Charlie Newman on November 16, 2009 at 12:06pm

Sean,
Thanks for sharing your thought. As one who has struggled with homosex. feelings I appreciate your desire not to box everything up real tight and desire a real discussion. I studied theology and also appreciate your keeness for not taking things out of context and rightly dividing the Word.
What I hear from you, more than anything is, let's not prioritize the work of alienating those who are different from us. We need to approach those struggling with homosexuality as brothers and sisters, willing most of all to hear their strory and offer an ear.
While I take God's Work very seriously, I do not want it to be the sword that cuts another off, but offers hope. That is what I have been offered. I have found that many of us have dared to look at our need for male love in a way that is new and refreshing. I have realized that no matter what my flesh tells me, I can find fulfilling and intimate relationships with men without having sex. This lies at the core of the homosexual dilema (spelling?). I thought for the longest time I needed sex to "feel" loved. The homo-emotional feeling was a real need, but I just didn't know what to do with it.
I don't know if you will learn anything new from this, but it is my hope that you will be as open to my story as any other. God is true to His Word if we are honest and open for help. I was not open for many years. I enjoyed the "medication" of sex and the goodness of being wtih other men. But it did not fill the gaping hole that was left for Him to fill.
I hope we as the church can be open to His love as we are real, and come out of the isolation that kills us. Thanks for being real man. And I know you want the best for us all.

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Permalink Reply by OnlybyGrace on November 15, 2009 at 10:43am

Paula, thank you for your recent comment on this discussion you are so right there seem to be a little tension with the response on this issue. My only reason for posting this isssue was for prayer for someone that is clearly lost.For there are many that clearly believe it's okay to behave in such a manner but we that confess Jesus Christ as our saviour know the thruth,Tonex should know the thruth of his sin because he has confessed Christ.So please keep him and all who posted on this issue in your prayers. God bless

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Permalink Reply by Charlie Newman on November 16, 2009 at 11:43am

It looks like this is a hot topic, seeing that there are more responses than to most any other. Ok, here's the deal. I have struggled with homosex. attractions for over 30 years. I have tried all the prayer, laying on of hands, counselling, and fasting that one could imagine and it only brought on more shame and guilt because the church wanted me to be straight instead of the clay vessel I am. I know that gay sex is wrong. But I have been greatly affected by being exploited as a young man. They all (my priest/drama coach, music teacher, and choreographer for the musical I was lead in) knew my need for male attention and validation, and they took advantage of it. I was dying for a man to make me feel special, and sex is a good tie-in when you are young and all you want is comfort and to feel good. I just want to express that this whole gay thing is soooo deceptive and yet is the greatest illusion satan has created. I lived in it for years, and yes it is fulfilling if you are satisfied with a culture that is as loose and unfaithful as a harlot. Sure, a few, relatively very few find the "one", and then they end up doing stuff on the side. I've heard and seen so much of that, believe me. Looking for the gold at the end of the rainbow in the gay culture is as helpful as filling your cup with coffee in the morning and hoping it will carry you thru the day. It works for awhile, like all the enemies devices, but ultimately most end up alone and regretful. But even if it did work, and Tonex finds his perfect match, God's plan still stands: He wants us to give our brokeness to him, and yes tell it like it is. God knows my story, He knows Tonex's and He can be there with all the homo-emotional feelings. But in order for God to do something with him or me, I have to look at my life thru the "truth lense" and ask why did this happen. It may have been my pre-disposition for the arts, my sensitivity, my family situation (I had all sisters around me, and no brothers to fill the gap my absent dad left) and I have to ask God to connect the dots and be willing to face the pain with God's mercy. He can meet us there, and we do not have to hide.
I found help at Love in Action, Memphis. After over 30 years I finally found a place the equipped me to go to Painville, instead of driving around my hurt, bitterness (toward God and my self), anger and fears. I could be real there, totally honest about where I was. And I was a sex addict totally convinced that I could only recieve intimacy with men thru sex. Well I found out that it was a lie. I could find real people who didn't push me into anything but seeking the truth about my self and the homosexual illusion of love. I can honestly say I still have same-sex attractions. I long for intimacy/acceptance wtih men, but it is changing. As I let them in and come out of my "gay closet", I find a sense of freedom and kindness I've never felt. It is as I admit my brokeness, He begins to put the pieces back together.
Soooo, thanks for being patient with me church, and listening to my raw heart. Let's continue to be real about whatever broken pieces we are dealing with, because we are all still on the road to recovery and freedom.
A thought: Needy people are desperate, and desperate people are dangerous. He died for these.

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Permalink Reply by AAG Netguy on November 17, 2009 at 10:34am

Charlie,

Thank you so much for your very real and truthful story about what God is doing in your life. Thank you for your courage in sharing this. It is an encouragment for anyone struggling with either homosexual or heterosexual sinful patterns and tendencies in their life. God bless you and thank you for sharing this.

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Permalink Reply by Charlie Newman on November 17, 2009 at 10:52am

Your welcome. It is freeing to finally speak unashamed of my brokeness and how God desires to meet me in the midst of it, and then transform me. I appreciate your encouragement and hope my honesty can encourage others to come out of their isolation.
charlie

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Permalink Reply by Nora on December 1, 2009 at 10:16pm

No. God intended for man and woman to be together/marry, not those of the same sex

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Permalink Reply by delores kay napier on January 8, 2010 at 3:21pm

to struggle with sin is one thing but from what i am seeing this preacher has justified being gay as ok and even has himself on the train ( heaven bound).the loophole he has made for his action is its a covenant in his eyes.... that which GOD hates. fornication,lust of the flesh & a false teacher to boot...

while it is true we as christians have each our own demons to fight we do not tell it to the world from church & lead those to believe this act is justified in GODS sight.. proud of the fact .a lot of us go to GOD for help or a friend..yes we may fail more then one time but that is what GOD has promised us ..... with him ,in him victory..... from sin to his true children.., the church...

if by his own admission t is his his lifestyle and as pastor of a flock of sheep it is his duty to led them down the right path .that is the office he accepted & these people believe in their leader .. to alot af people this is the in thing , stamped by mans approve stamp & anyone who attempts to cross the line . these people are taking over our country and we are being forced to not talk bad about them, to turn away. satin has crept into all forms of goverment powers ,movie stars recording artists, the churches... people our children look up too. this preacher is leading those people down the path to hell.....

this man has found his safe haven with in his self , not for LOVE of GOD ,but for his own selfishness. what he wants( PLEASURE of the flesh...)our purpose is to love GOD with all our hearts & all our mind &all our soul....love GOD first.of all.

this man does not represnt GOD or CHRIST.... he is a false teacher.. a wolf in sheeps clothing .. this man has come from a family of believers .... his father was the pastor of this church & an elder & his mother was a minister,also. he took over the chiurch when his father passed away so he has known the truth & turned from it , if we willfully turn form the truth after we know better we our throwing GODS grace back in his face.. see HEB.4:1-4.

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Permalink Reply by Prophet on February 8, 2010 at 3:49am

There is no dispute or discussion on this subject the WORD is very clear and cannot be twisted or interpreted in any other way than what is written

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Although the Bible doesn't detail each and every one of these sinful acts, it does clearly speak out about many of them. Any deviation from God's original plan for sex between a married man and woman is still a sin in God's eyes. The main reason we call these things perverted is because they are unnatural and scripture clearly tells us those who do such things are committing abominations. Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination."

I don't think it can be any clearer that that, although Homosexuals can repent and turn from their sin and then be forgiven they cannot continue to practice homosexuality and expect to be saved. The word also say that in Christ we are new creations. So If a gay person repents he/she should be new creations and should no-longer have any desire to be gay.

I realise that many have been hurt and abused by this practice but GOD is very clear about His requirements.and if we cannot follow them we sin it is that simple and that clear

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