Blind Faith.

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Hamm on February 4, 2012 at 3:25pm

Thank you for your comments Rita, you are right I have alot to study and learn about God and christianity.

God bless you and yours.

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Permalink Reply by Mary Doris Jones on January 30, 2012 at 12:35pm

One thing I will tell you Hamm being good will not get you into heaven that is a fact. Isaih 54:10 Jesus said Come to me and listen, listen to me so you may live. I will make an agreement with you that will last forever. I will give you the blessings I promised to David. So look to the Lord before it is too late, Call to him while he is near he will hear your cry. Jesus said in Isaiah 54:10 that The mountains may disappear, and the hills may come to an end, but his love will never disappear; my promise of peace will not come to an end, "says the Lord who shows mercy to you. Amen? Amen. Be encouraged God is not through with you yet. Mary Doris   

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Permalink Reply by Hamm on February 4, 2012 at 3:23pm

Thanks for your comments and reply Mary. I like them. God bless you.

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Permalink Reply by Hamm on February 4, 2012 at 3:22pm

Thanks reading and reply to my blog Francis. I will read Strongs. Thanks for the advice.

God bless you and yours.

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Permalink Reply by Hamm on February 4, 2012 at 3:21pm

Thanks for your comments and honesty Char. I am humbled by your words and these have helped.

God bless you.

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Permalink Reply by Hamm on February 4, 2012 at 3:26pm

I would like to say thanks to everyone who has read the blog and to the people who have taken tiem to comment and for their advice and honesty.

I will one day have your faith.

Thanks all God bless

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Permalink Reply by JB on February 4, 2012 at 3:43pm

Hamm,

 I have good news for you, You have the same faith as everyone else, All you need now is less doubt and a little more knowledge. Because God has given to every man the measure of faith. More grace will come as you grow in the knowledge Him.

I hope in the minds of others I am not taking this out of context.

Joe

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on February 4, 2012 at 4:08pm

Joe,

 

It is a little more complex than that. The KJV says the following:

 

2Th 1:3  We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;

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Permalink Reply by JB on February 5, 2012 at 12:27am

Joe,

It is a little more complex than that. The KJV says the following:

2Th 1:3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth;

 

I believe L.T. though the word “faith” is “Pistis” the same word used for faith in Heb.11:1, However to me, in context of the bible as a whole, would lend itself to “assurance” more than “faith“. Assurance being a secondary meaning of the word.

We could all use a little more assurance, but faith? All we need is faith of a mustard seed, type, or more. It is unclear if the mustard seed refers to quantity, or quality. Though it is so small, yet it dominates its environment.

It can also be confusing taking it at face value, when we look at scripture comparison,

Mat.17:19-21 They asked Jesus why they couldn’t cast out the spirit, and Jesus said, “because of your unbelief” When He said howbeit this kind cometh not out but by prayer and fasting. Telling me that when they get the doubt out, by prayer and fasting; then they can cast out the evil spirit. Because in other places in the Word, it is used a few times where if you “doubt not“, then you can do this or that.

(The NIV. Leaves out the 21 verse completely)

Now Mk.9:28-29 Gives a little different account of the same incident. “ When he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately , why could not we cast him out? And he said unto them, this kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.”

So in light of other passages concerning prayer and fasting, we find in Rom. 8:26, where the Spirit helps our infirmities, “weakness” not knowing what or how to pray for a situation, we pray in the spirit to hear through the Spirit how to pray or intercede, and it will be revealed how to intercede. So this is why I say that in context of the Word as a whole.[ For a lack of a better way of explaining it] Because in different places: the Words “faith, and assurance, belief etc” can be used metonymically.

So if we want to stay in context of the scripture, then we must decide if the word being used is actually meaning faith, assurance, belief, or believing etc., because it can have an adverse effect on our comprehension of the passages.

It even gets more confusing when we try to understand by using various translations or paraphrased renderings.

Sorry for the long version of my explanations. Yet it seems as though my short version can be just as confusing, if not more so LOL.

Joe

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on February 5, 2012 at 3:23pm

Joe,

 

I believe L.T. though the word “faith” is “Pistis” the same word used for faith in Heb.11:1, However to me, in context of the bible as a whole, would lend itself to “assurance” more than “faith“. Assurance being a secondary meaning of the word.

To me faith involves assurance or it is left wanting, Thus the context of the Bible when referring to faith is referring to being assured or lack of assurance. Faith, true faith, is never blind. There must be Holy Spirit enlightenment in order for true faith to exist.

 

We could all use a little more assurance, but faith? All we need is faith of a mustard seed, type, or more. It is unclear if the mustard seed refers to quantity, or quality. Though it is so small, yet it dominates its environment.

In Romans 12:3 we see the Word teaching us that there is a measure of faith. In Romans 12:6 we are told to exercise our gifts according to the proportion of faith (that we have).

 

It can also be confusing taking it at face value, when we look at scripture comparison,

I do not think it is confusing at all when we look at it at face value. I approach all Scripture at face value. This simply means that if it is historical I read it historical, poetry as poetry, allegory as allegoric, prophecy as prophecy, and so on. One of the keys to various passages of Scripture is identifying the literary style in which it is written. For me the great danger is when people try to allegorize the whole of Scripture.

 

Mat.17:19-21 They asked Jesus why they couldn’t cast out the spirit, and Jesus said, “because of your unbelief” When He said howbeit this kind cometh not out but by prayer and fasting. Telling me that when they get the doubt out, by prayer and fasting; then they can cast out the evil spirit. Because in other places in the Word, it is used a few times where if you “doubt not“, then you can do this or that.

Doubt is the absence of faith (assurance). Complete doubt is a complete absence of faith.

 

(The NIV. Leaves out the 21 verse completely)

They do not leave it out, but footnote it. They give their reasons for this up front. I am not here to defend the NIV as I have other reasons why I do not like the newer versions of it, but this is not one of those reasons.

 

Now Mk.9:28-29 Gives a little different account of the same incident. “ When he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately , why could not we cast him out? And he said unto them, this kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.”

Prayer and fasting only have value if they are joined by faith, for through faith we have been saved and now have access to the Father and the throne of grace.

 

So in light of other passages concerning prayer and fasting, we find in Rom. 8:26, where the Spirit helps our infirmities, “weakness” not knowing what or how to pray for a situation, we pray in the spirit to hear through the Spirit how to pray or intercede, and it will be revealed how to intercede. So this is why I say that in context of the Word as a whole.[ For a lack of a better way of explaining it] Because in different places: the Words “faith, and assurance, belief etc” can be used metonymically.

 

So if we want to stay in context of the scripture, then we must decide if the word being used is actually meaning faith, assurance, belief, or believing etc., because it can have an adverse effect on our comprehension of the passages.

Do we determine our understanding based on the English rendering of a word or on its original meaning? Context drives the meaning of many words, but in the case of “pistis” there is no need to confuse the meaning of faith by trying to separate it from conviction, belief and assurance. In the end, the context reveals that these words mean the same thing and could be interchanged without harming the understanding of the passage.

 

It even gets more confusing when we try to understand by using various translations or paraphrased renderings.

I can agree that the use of many translations, and especially paraphrases, can lead to confusion in studying the Scripture if one is not careful.

 

Sorry for the long version of my explanations.

No need to apologize for the long response. I needed it to get an idea as to where you are coming from, and it helped. We still disagree, but at least I now know why :-)

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on February 4, 2012 at 6:53pm

Joe, I know there is a difference between faith and belief...but it seems that faith is far more important than belief and that would mean doubt is not always a bad thing. I am thinking of doubting Thomas. It shows honesty anyway.

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Permalink Reply by JB on February 5, 2012 at 12:42am

Amanda, any time we have doubt about what the Word says to us, it is indeed a bad thing.

Doubting Thomas, had to be convinced sensually, He couldn’t believe beyond what his senses told him, and that is not faith, we walk by faith, not by sight. and without faith, it is impossible to please God.

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