Blind Faith.

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 28, 2012 at 6:18am

Hamm,

 

I would like to not give a lengthy reply, but a simple one. What does your heart say about you and Jesus? Do not focus on the externals, but seek deep within. Is Jesus your Lord and Savior? Do you LOVE Him? Are you willing to live for Him and not seek Him to exist for you? (The last question is not meant as judgmental or implying anything. It is a question we all need to ask ourselves). Do you experience conviction deep within when you sin?Christianity is foremost about relationship with the Living God that leads to a life lived out for His glory.

 

Read Romans 8 and 10, Ephesians 1-2, Colossians 3 and 1 John 3-5. I think these will help.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Hamm on January 28, 2012 at 8:38am

LT, Thanks for your reply.

Deep in my heart, with out question is that I cannot kneel to something that demands sufferring and dishes out sufferring for its sake, chooses some ones life before their are born that they will suffer for them,  and watch those on this world sin and not suffer and can be redeemed if they ask for forgiveness. But sufferring for sufferring sake, and  if I  do complain about my suffering then I will not be saved, I am not christian. I thought the very foundation of christianity was that  Jesus suffered for our weakness our sins all I need to do is ask him for forgiveness. I don't need to suffer, we don't need to suffer because of this. 2012 years ago.

  I understand I have sinned and I do choose a life without sin, in a world, a religion, a bible that changes what sin is from day to day, faith to faith, book from book. Contradiction to contradiction, form & in generation to generation, culture to culture.

Deep in my heart there is confusion, this why I am asking. I love the idea that a man could see and have so much love for humanity and be crusified for this, but then hate the fact that this has been manipulated into a from of control.

I am very confused about religion, I am very confused that a loving God can be a jealous God an hurtful God.

I would like emphasis that I don't judge others and their believes, I am only judging and questioning mine. I am asking for others to express theirs.

I suppose I am looking for something I cannot question or doubt anymore, so I am not just having faith blind, or blind faith.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 28, 2012 at 12:54pm

Hamm, I will attempt to talk plainly with you about this and not simply quote Scripture to you, though I do believe in the Word. What I have to say will be Bible based, but not just the Scripture tossed at you. The response long ... sorry about that.

 

Deep in my heart, with out question is that I cannot kneel to something that demands sufferring and dishes out sufferring for its sake, chooses some ones life before their are born that they will suffer for them, and watch those on this world sin and not suffer and can be redeemed if they ask for forgiveness.

Kneeling before God is currently a choice given us by our Creator. We can choose Him or reject Him. Regardless of what we do God is still God and unchanged. There is a day coming in which all will bow before God. Those who have already chosen to do so will do it as an act of worship and those who rejected Him in this life will be forced as subjects to bow before the King of kings and Lord of lords. Either way, all people will bow, including you and me. I have already chosen to do so and have freely given Him my life. As a result of His work and my response I am no longer mine, but His. He paid a high price for my redemption ... He surrendered His life to torture, humiliation and death. Yet, we know He has risen and the Risen Savior offers freely new life to all who will call on His name (meaning repent and receive).

 

Thus, there are two kinds of people living in the flesh today on earth. There are the once born and the twice born. The once born have experienced physical birth, but are dead spiritually. If they remain in this state, known as having the sin nature, they will experience separation from God for all eternity in torment in the Lake of Fire. Some argue this is cruel, yet God tells us that this is just. God, who is holy, did not sin against man. Man sinned against God and the wages of sin is death. Adam and Eve brought sin into the world and due to their sin all of creation is now tainted. Thus, when we were born we were born with a sin nature. We are prone to sin and ultimately all have sinned. Thus we stand guilty before holy God because of personal guilt. God could have simply destroyed man, but did not. In His grace and mercy He has allowed man to live and propagate in the sin nature, but has provided the only remedy to man’s dilemma, and that is Jesus Christ the Lamb of God.

 

Thus, God created man. Man sinned against holy God. God has proved the needed remedy to man’s separation from God, the blood of the Lamb. Many people ignore this wonderful offer. Some even accuse God as if it is all His fault. It is ironic that man wants His freewill, but when it comes to man’s failure we often blame God for not intervening and stopping us.

 

Then there are those who come to surrender their lives to Jesus, and that is part of what it means to be saved ... surrender. Complete surrender is a lifelong process, but must be our aspiration. When we repent and receive Him we then become twice born. Born of the flesh at natural birth and born of the Spirit through the work of the Holy Spirit and the blood of the Lamb at salvation.

 

Next, God does not demand suffering. He is not asking us to mortify the flesh to be holy. He is not sitting in heaven thinking up ways to harm us or frustrate us. There are four who fight against us, but God is not one of them. He is always for us. The four that fight against us are the reality that we live in a fallen world, with fallen people, in the fallen flesh (personally) and there is an enemy who stands against us (Satan and his hoard).

 

God tells us from the beginning that we will experience trials and tribulations in this life. He never candy coats it or attempts to gloss over this part. Living a life for Jesus in the power and presence of the Holy Spirit is difficult. We are literally engaged in a war. We recognize that souls are at stake. God wishes none to perish, but He also will not force them. God has called the church, born again children, to be His ambassadors in a hostile land. Over the past 2000 years untold thousands have been killed for their faith and many more tortured beyond our wildest nightmares. These people recognize that this is not our home and this life is no longer mine. I lay it down for Christ so that He may be glorified and people reached while there is still time.

 

We praise God that if a person comes to repentance (a true change of mind) and asks for forgiveness, God will forgive them and save them ... praise the Lord. This is why Jesus died. He took the penalty of all who truly come to Him upon Himself. Now keep in mind that simply saying a prayer does not get a person saved. There has to be a true change of mind that acknowledges their personal guilt and they are seeking forgiveness for their crimes against God and often humanity.

 

Do not be troubled or dismayed by God’s patience. All will be made right and people will either face God in their sin or covered by the blood of the Lamb. There is no escaping the final judgment, nor escaping death ... but after death, then what? Eternity is looming and all will experience it in one of two ways.

 

 

But sufferring for sufferring sake,

We never suffer for sufferings sake. There is always a purpose and opportunity to glorify God. This is especially true when we recognize the four basic areas that was against us. Because of these four areas I always ask myself 4 questions in order when I go through a storm. 1) Am I in this situation because of personal sin? If so, then repent and align with God. If, not I go to question 2. 2) What is God trying to teach me through this storm? Sometimes I can see it and at other times I see nothing at all. If nothing, I go to question 3. 3) What is God trying to teach others through my storm, because life is not all about me. If I still cannot see the answer I am left with one last question. 4) Can I simply trust the Creator of the universe who loves me and sent His Son to die for me to take care of me through this storm? I must realize that though need not create the storm, He allowed it. If He allowed it, then there is an opportunity here to grow and/or glorify God.

 

 

and if I do complain about my suffering then I will not be saved, I am not christian.

Christians complain about what is happening to them often. We need to be cautious as to how we complain, but even in our failings God loves us and will pick us up. We are not an old shoe He will throw away ... we are His children when we become born-again. A person’s salvation does not depend on their actions, but upon God’s. As children of God our actions post new birth are in response to our Father with a desire to glorify Him in all we do. The motivation is love, not punishment if we fail.

 

I thought the very foundation of christianity was that Jesus suffered for our weakness our sins all I need to do is ask him for forgiveness. I don't need to suffer, we don't need to suffer because of this. 2012 years ago.

The foundation of Christianity is that Jesus died for our sins in our place and that we will spend eternity with Him. Regarding the life here-and-now we are told to expect trouble, to recognize as Christians we will be hated and persecuted. The odd thing to us is that history shows that when the church has been persecuted it flourished and when it was in a state of ease it drifted away and lost focus.

 

 

I understand I have sinned and I do choose a life without sin, in a world, a religion, a bible that changes what sin is from day to day, faith to faith, book from book. Contradiction to contradiction, form & in generation to generation, culture to culture.

The Bible does not change what sin is, man attempts to redefine what is sin. No matter what man tries to do God still is the authority and what He has stated is really all that counts. There are no extra books, the Bible is enough. We do not need man to attempt to justify this sin or that, we need to repent and trust God. Another way of saying this is that God’s truth, His Word, does not change. We see throughout history that man is prone to wander away if left unchecked. God has sent numerous revivals to awaken the sleeping or wayward church. At times He has called people out to start a new work because the old was dying or so lost its way that it pleased Him to start a fresh work. In all of this, neither God nor His Word changed.

 

There are no contradictions is God’s Word when everything is taken at face value in context and weighed against the whole of Scripture. There are some passages that present us with difficulties, but not contradictions. For example, in the 4 gospels people like to point out variations in some of the accounts that are recorded in more than one book. They note some variations and call them errors or contradictions. This is simply not the case. The 4 gospels each have their specific purpose. Matthew reveals Jesus as the King. Mark reveals Jesus as the servant. Luke reveals Jesus as the Son of Man and John as the Son of God. When we recognize the fine pointed focus of each book it brings these apparent differences into focus. They revealed, as led by the Holy Spirit, the part of the account that fulfills the basic purpose of that Book. We also know that God gave several covenants. Understanding these covenants and how they tie together and to whom what is applied helps us to navigate what appears to be confusing. Lastly, could you imagine if all 4 gospels said the exact same thing? People would yell ... collusion. Also, if they said the exact same thing, why write four?

 

Deep in my heart there is confusion, this why I am asking.

In the end, Hamm, all that I write cannot bring light into your heart unless the Holy Spirit does it. The best place to find Jesus is in the Word of God. He is revealed in creation and in the church, but in the Word as guided by the Holy Spirit is the best place to find Him and have light shine into darkness.

 

I love the idea that a man could see and have so much love for humanity and be crusified for this, but then hate the fact that this has been manipulated into a from of control.

No doubt that many have used it for profit and evil purposes, but that does not change who God is nor the fact that Jesus died for you that you may have new life and a relationship with Him. Our goal in all of this is not to find the right church or right denomination (or no denomination) or to even make it to heaven and be safe from the Lake of Fire. If that is our goal we are shooting way too low. Our goal is God Himself. Nothing less will do. Do not seek religion ... seek Jesus. Do not let the failings of sinful man distort your view of a holy God.. Church is important for many reasons, a church that is focused on Jesus and living for Him that is. But the church cannot save you ... only Jesus can.

 

 

I am very confused about religion, I am very confused that a loving God can be a jealous God an hurtful God.

Born again children of God are called the Bride of Christ Jesus s jealous over His bride. He wants nothing but the best for her. He is coming back for her. We also know that God will not share His glory with anyone. Satan tried to usurp God’s authority and steal some of His glory desiring to be equal to God. Man’s sin in the garden was more than disobedience, though it included disobedience. Man wanted to be like God. The serpent convinced them that God was holding them back. Not much has changed in the past 6000 or so years. Man’s only hope is new life in Christ.

 

I would like emphasis that I don't judge others and their believes, I am only judging and questioning mine. I am asking for others to express theirs.

I appreciate that you are looking for answers and not judging. Your search tells me that God is working on you or you would not care at all. I will continue to pray for you and seek to help if you have further questions or thoughts.

 

I suppose I am looking for something I cannot question or doubt anymore, so I am not just having faith blind, or blind faith.

Most of us have fleeting moments where a thought may run through our heads, but we must take those thoughts captive and repel them. Faith is enable by God because we are saved by grace through faith – and this not from yourselves. Faith is not blind. In fact it is only really possible when the spiritual world is opened up to us that we may know that Jesus is the living God who died on the cross for me, rose from the grave, ascended into heaven and is coming back soon. Only when our spiritual eyes are opened can we see these things and then trust in them.

 

I hope this helps you.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Hamm on January 28, 2012 at 1:44pm

LT thank you so very much for your reply, thank you for the time spent reading and responding.

Thank you God bless you. Your comments are really helpful and have encouraged me to think more about these issues I am experiencing. I have lately thought similar to you about what am I being taught here, what is my lesson, what is it that others learn from my sufferring ect.

Thanks again.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 28, 2012 at 2:33pm

You are welcome and may God guide your steps. I will be praying for you on your journey.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on January 28, 2012 at 10:00am

Hamm, I know you are a believer. You also have a kind and caring heart. I see you struggling to trust God. I don't think God minds our questioning and I do think He is very understanding when we feel hurt and angry and cannot understand the reasons why we suffer. Here is an answer that has helped me in some of my questioning and I provided a link that may help you in your search for other answers:

Question: "Why does God allow evil?"

Answer: The Bible describes God as holy (Isaiah 6:3), righteous (Psalm 7:11), just (Deuteronomy 32:4), and sovereign (Daniel 4:17-25). These attributes tell us the following about God: (1) God is capable of preventing evil, and (2) God desires to rid the universe of evil. So, if both of these are true, why does God allow evil? If God has the power to prevent evil and desires to prevent evil, why does He still allow evil? Perhaps a practical way to look at this question would be to consider some alternative ways people might have God run the world:

1) God could change everyone’s personality so that they cannot sin. This would also mean that we would not have a free will. We would not be able to choose right or wrong because we would be “programmed” to only do right. Had God chosen to do this, there would be no meaningful relationships between Him and His creation.

Instead, God made Adam and Eve innocent but with the ability to choose good or evil. Because of this, they could respond to His love and trust Him or choose to disobey. They chose to disobey. Because we live in a real world where we can choose our actions but not their consequences, their sin affected those who came after them (us). Similarly, our decisions to sin have an impact on us and those around us and those who will come after us.

2) God could compensate for people’s evil actions through supernatural intervention 100 percent of the time. God would stop a drunk driver from causing an automobile accident. God would stop a lazy construction worker from doing a substandard job on a house that would later cause grief to the homeowners. God would stop a father who is addicted to drugs or alcohol from doing any harm to his wife, children, or extended family. God would stop gunmen from robbing convenience stores. God would stop high school bullies from tormenting the brainy kids. God would stop thieves from shoplifting. And, yes, God would stop terrorists from flying airplanes into buildings.

While this solution sounds attractive, it would lose its attractiveness as soon as God’s intervention infringed on something we wanted to do. We want God to prevent horribly evil actions, but we are willing to let “lesser-evil” actions slide—not realizing that those “lesser-evil” actions are what usually lead to the “greater-evil” actions. Should God only stop actual sexual affairs, or should He also block our access to pornography or end any inappropriate, but not yet sexual, relationships? Should God stop “true” thieves, or should He also stop us from cheating on our taxes? Should God only stop murder, or should He also stop the “lesser-evil” actions done to people that lead them to commit murder? Should God only stop acts of terrorism, or should He also stop the indoctrination that transformed a person into a terrorist?

3) Another choice would be for God to judge and remove those who choose to commit evil acts. The problem with this possibility is that there would be no one left, for God would have to remove us all. We all sin and commit evil acts (Romans 3:23; Ecclesiastes 7:20; 1 John 1:8). While some people are more evil than others, where would God draw the line? Ultimately, all evil causes harm to others.

Instead of these options, God has chosen to create a “real” world in which real choices have real consequences. In this real world of ours, our actions affect others. Because of Adam’s choice to sin, the world now lives under the curse, and we are all born with a sin nature (Romans 5:12). There will one day come a time when God will judge the sin in this world and make all things new, but He is purposely “delaying” in order to allow more time for people to repent so that He will not need to condemn them (2 Peter 3:9). Until then, He IS concerned about evil. When He created the Old Testament laws, the goal was to discourage and punish evil. He judges nations and rulers who disregard justice and pursue evil. Likewise, in the New Testament, God states that it is the government’s responsibility to provide justice in order to protect the innocent from evil (Romans 13). He also promises severe consequences for those who commit evil acts, especially against the "innocent" (Mark 9:36-42).

In summary, we live in a real world where our good and evil actions have direct consequences and indirect consequences upon us and those around us. God’s desire is that for all of our sakes we would obey Him that it might be well with us (Deuteronomy 5:29). Instead, what happens is that we choose our own way, and then we blame God for not doing anything about it. Such is the heart of sinful man. But Jesus came to change men’s hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit, and He does this for those who will turn from evil and call on Him to save them from their sin and its consequences (2 Corinthians 5:17). God does prevent and restrain some acts of evil. This world would be MUCH WORSE were not God restraining evil. At the same time, God has given us the ability to choose good and evil, and when we choose evil, He allows us, and those around us, to suffer the consequences of evil. Rather than blaming God and questioning God on why He does not prevent all evil, we should be about the business of proclaiming the cure for evil and its consequences—Jesus Christ!

Recommended Resource: If God, Why Evil?: A New Way to Think about the Question by Norman Geisler.

http://www.gotquestions.org/God-allow-evil.html

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Hamm on January 28, 2012 at 10:40am

Hi Amanda, I agree with the concept of what you aare saying and agree totally that it is more or less up to humans to stop evil.

If we sum up the amount of humans from any religion or faith we would be talking billions. If we summ up the faiths that understand good from evil, we have billiuons if we look at the development of moral standards moving away from our times as barbarians we have travelled millions of years. But us billions of people allow by saying its God will from any any faith allow evil to continue.

Poverty, Abuse, Violence, discontent, sexual abuse, theft, conned, war, murder, torture are all justified by us, allowed by us not acted on by us, not stopped by us.

So the victim is asked to accepty this because its our will and hence Gods will because we don't own this by acceppting Gods will, or using this as an excuse not to do anything.

When good people are left broked its God will, God doesn't undo the breaking the hurting unless we kneel before him. When we use an excuse that God repays your sufferring in heaven then we will always accept evil here on earth.

I hope I am not offending you my friend or others, but my learning, and my anger towards evil & God.

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on January 28, 2012 at 11:06am

Hamm, you are not offending me. Evil is here on earth. We cannot deny it. Jesus is the answer. Humans do have liberties and often use them for evil and not for good. Humanity will never be able to eradicate evil from this world. Only God can and the Bible says He will...eventually. Jesus is the answer.

I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us--Romans 8:18.

There are consequences for choices. The homosexual who gets sick with AIDS but repents and stops his sexual immorality may not experience healing of his disease. He may die from the effects of AIDS. He may suffer horribly but he will escape hell for accepting Christ as Savior and turning away from his sin and turning to God.

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose--Romans 8:28.

I wonder if I will ever get to where I can trust in God completely?

The end of Romans 8 goes like this:

More Than Conquerors
31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord

 

Have you trusted Jesus as your Savior? It doesn't mean you won't have trials and tribulations in this life. You know what evil things happened to Jesus here on earth. Read Isaiah 53. Jesus was the Suffering Servant.

After trusting Jesus as Savior, we still need to learn to trust Him more and more. This world is very difficult.

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Permalink Reply by James on January 28, 2012 at 12:53pm

I'm responding to your questions, with your questions/comments in Italics:

Is trying to be a christian and believing in the bible good enough?

Yes and no.  There are several factors here.  You have to consider what that entails.  If it includes being baptised, repentance, and living for God, then the answer is probably yes....but most people can't continue like that long term without knowing God, so it's important to seek God and his will in your life, or else your faith will weaken and you might fully turn from him.

Is questioning the bible and Christianity not good enough?

There's nothing wrong with questioning the Bible/Christianity, *however*...If you know God and know the Bible to be his Word, then you shouldn't question it.  Not because of blind faith, but because you would know that God and the Bible are Holy, and that questioning it is due to lack of faith.  To lack faith is not a good thing and if you arenot committed to God, then that will not be good enough.

 

If not understanding the contradictions of Christianity and the bible not good enough?

Then will I be ever in hell and not good enough for heaven, christs and Gods blessing?

How will I know this?

How with all these questions about Christianity will I understand that I am either of the chosen few or not?

If I am blind to the fact Iam not of the chosen few, how do I know?

No one is "good enough" for heaven, and you don't have to "understand" everything in the Bible.  Like I said, if you know God, you should know the Bible to be his Word.  There is probably no one with a "guarantee" of heaven, but if you have enough faith and are close enough to God, whether or not you go to heaven will not be your main concern, serving God will be.  How will you understand if you are one of the "chosen few" ?  Well, I could be wrong about this, but it's my *theory* that if you have been "mysteriously held back" to a lot of things in your life which would have turned you to the forces of darkness, then that's a good indicator that God held them back so that you wouldn't have pledged your soul to the darkside.  It could have happened to me, but it didn't, and I no longer seek the help of dark spiritual forces.

  

What should I do if I am not of the chosen, I am not of the christian calling, beacuse I am never, will never be in league with some thing that is willing to hurt and tourmnet others and if I am not of the chosen few, if I am noit of christianity and I am not in with any other what do I do?

If you're "not one of the chosen", then you would probably either be living a "very" worldly life (I don't mean just lots of sins, but living a life "content"* without God).  I'll be straight with you:  I was where you were 9yrs ago, with the added difference that I hated God at the time.  That you are not seeking dark spiritual forces is a good sign.  If that continues, then I believe you will find God eventually, but that might require meeting Christians you can relate to or Christians who have enough faith to pray for your problems to be healed.  There will be a time coming when it will be one or the other for sure.  You'll be healed by God and know him, or you will turn to dark spiritual forces. You won't be "in between" forever.

* By this I mean with no intention of seeking God, and believing that you're doing ok without God.

I am blind to this faith in relation to others, though I am not niave to the evils that go on.

I am blind to the contradiction of this faith, though have no other faith or to have faith in.

This is a good sign/start, and is one reason I've always believed in God.  I know how the forces of darkness operate.  There's no other faith I recommend you turning to, as any spiritual power/aid given by other faiths originates from demonic forces.  God is the only one who is truly Holy and deserving of worship, and if you can understand/consider/believe that, I believe you will find him and your faith will increase to a level where the above questions won't be so much of a concern.  

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Permalink Reply by Hamm on January 28, 2012 at 1:46pm

Thank you James for reading my comments and taking your time to respond. There is alot here for me to think about and for this I really appreciate your comments.

God bless you and thank you.

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Permalink Reply by James on January 28, 2012 at 7:58pm

No worries Hamm, please feel free to message me if you want to discuss anything privately.  I don't check all the posts here, it's rather overwhelming for me to deal with messageboards/forums, and I just respond to what I can.  

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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on January 29, 2012 at 4:53am

Hamm,

John 3:16 says that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son...that whosoever... that's  who so ever...

believes in Him will have eternal life. That is all that is absolutely necessary to have eternal life. If more were to be required...then Christ's sacrifice on the cross is not sufficient for salvation.

As we study God's Word...we learn what His Will is. As we study...we try to walk as Christ walked..do what Paul writes about in his teachings. We grow in Christ.

I find no contradictions in the Word of God. I do find contradictions in some of the teachings of man. God is perfect and He remains the same.

God would have ALL men to accept Christ. Men are the ones that keeps salvation from themselves, by disbelief.

Satan's greatest victory is making man believe the God is responsible for all misery. God is responsible for NO misery that man suffers.

I don't know if you have a child or not, but if you do, do you want to see your child suffering and miserable? Of course not...and neither does God; but, if Satan can make you believe that, then that is misery in itself.

I ask the Lord's blessing on you as you learn His Will through His Word, as you study it...

Rita

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