ASSURANCE!

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on October 22, 2010 at 4:50am

Raj,

>>Personal salvation depends on a personal relationship with Jesus. It can be a long hard race for some and one must endure to the end. How many of us are willing to that? Many give up halway through the race and given in to temptation and sin.

Jude 1:24
Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,

Hebrews 12:2
looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Matthew 24:13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

The ones who persevere are the same ones who are saved---not the ones whose love grows cold (v.12). This does not suggest that our perseverance secures our salvation. Scripture everywhere teaches precisely the opposite. God, as part of His saving work, secures our perseverance. True believers are “are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation”

The guarantee of our perseverance is built into the New Convenent promise. God says: “I WILL PUT My FEAR IN THEIR HEARTS SO THAT THEY WILL NOT DEPART FROM ME” (Jer. 32:40). Those who do fall away from Christ give conclusive proof that they were never truly believers to begin with.

To say that God secures our perseverance is not to say that we are passive it the process, however.
admonitions do not negate the many promises that true believers will persevere (John 10:28-29, Rom. 8:38-39; 1 Cor. 1:8-9; Phi. 1:6) Rather, the warnings and pleas are among the means God uses to secure our perseverance in the faith, Notice that the warnings and the promises often appear side by side. For example, when Jude urges believers, “keep yourselves in the love of God” (Jude 21-24), he immediately points them to God, “who is able to keep you from stumbling. I used the McArthur Study bible to helped me with some notes here.

Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on October 22, 2010 at 9:52am

Hi Raj and David,
C'mon guys, I'm surprised. Raj is blaming Satan for his lack of assurance and David your looking to yourself to persevere.

Both are missing the most fundamental fact of Salvation, that will lead to total assurance.

But I'm here to pick your brains. Here to get everyone thinking. Soooo, C'mon members on AAG.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on October 22, 2010 at 12:58pm

Ron,

ok ok you got me intrigue now....

Jesus loves me this I know for the bible tells me so.

Jesus saves me this I know for the bible tells me so.... :)

And just for the record my friend – I am not looking at self to persevere, May it never be. I will try to explain better later on what I meant by my scribbles above.

Love you …

Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on October 22, 2010 at 1:57pm

C'mon guys,

You are dissapointing me.

Dave starts to sing Sundays school songs for kids and my friend Grazer places the entire Bible at the feet of one who lacks assurance and says you will find your answer in there.

Help me please, I lack assurance, what is the cause and what is the answer? Failing which, I am going to have a word with your Pastors. LOL!

Is there anyone out there? Please HELP!

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on October 22, 2010 at 2:13pm

Ron-

hahaha hahaaha ohhhh man you are gonna get it. hahaha

Thanks for the laugh. i want others to jump in here, so i will keep my comments for laters.

Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on October 22, 2010 at 3:22pm

OK guys,

I give up.... In fact this is a very serious question for many, many people......

There are lots of Christians that have saving faith and are saved. But I fear that there are many Christians who are continually dragged down because they do not have an assured faith, which can only come through the doctrine of Justification through faith.

Christians who experience this up and down, loss and gain type of assurance, do not fully understand the doctrine of JUSTIFICATION. They do not clearly understand that Christ's work on the cross, not only forgives sin, but allows us to stand Justified (Free of all sin) before God.

They also do not understand that this Justification does not only last for a day, but for eternity. It is through the doctrine of Justification that the weakest Christian is as strong and fully justified as is the strongest.

We need to have a clear view of what Christ has done for us, because without this, when things (sin) goes wrong we are inclined to think that we have no part in Christ. We begin to lose assurance, even hope. We start to consider ourelves "Sinners" once again, forgetting that Christ saved us when we were sinners and not righteous people.

Therefore we need to fully understand what Justification through faith means. We must understand that we will never be free of sin, YET know that our faith in Christ allows us to stand JUSTIFIED before God, because ALL our sin, Past - Present - Future has already been paid for by the Son of God Himself..

Once this, the doctrine of Justification "JUST-AS-IF-ID" never sinned is clearly understood and that God will only see us through the redemptive work of Christ, we can then start to look forward to Sanctification.
Sanctification? Now that's another story.

Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on October 22, 2010 at 11:55pm

Hi Grazer,

My question here has always been: "I lack assurance, what is the cause and what is the answer?" The goal posts remain intact.

As I said, the cause of losing one's assurance, is the lack of understanding of what Justification by faith really means and the answer is, once a Christian understands what being Justified really means, then our assurance of salvation will no longer be a personal problem.... Should I lack this knowledge, then each time I sin, I will go into panic mode and find myself QUESTIONING my salvation. Sadly, my eyes will have been taken off the cross and found concentrating on my sin.

My brother "Joe Soap" does not know that I paid his traffic fine for him. Because he has not seen the receipt and in fact does not believe me when I tell him.
He lacks the assurance and goes into panic mode every time he see's a traffic officer.

An understanding of "Justification" takes away the fear that the sins we commit will cause us to be found guilty of the crime, a crime that has already been paid for in full.
Therefore losing one's Assurance is caused by our lack of understanding what being completely Justified means....... Of course the answer is believing God when He says: "I will remember your sins no more" WHY? Because, even today, when the devil accuses you before God of sin, Christ stands in front of you and as your Advocate declares to the Judge on the Throne, that the sins in your life have been paid for in full and you are justified in believing this truth.

Once again... A full understanding of this, helps one to put away their past life and it's cares, and not to continually stand accused, but rather allowing one to concentrate on attaining a personal sanctification, which believe it or not, in God's eyes, through Christ we are already sanctified. But our willingness to personally become more like Christ, (Sanctified) is a declaration of our faith in what Christ has already accomplished for us.
Fully grasp these truths and one will never again lose assurance of salvation or question their right to stand before God guiltless.

Another wonderful truth, which we do not realise, is that God never does anything in half measures. He has covered every aspect of our salvation.
The price He paid to accomplish our salvation is so great that once we have believed and placed our trust in Him, He WILL NOT allow us to slip through any loop holes that might cause us to lose our position in Christ. The chorus: "What a Mighty God we serve" only hints at His greatness.

Forgive me if I appear to be teaching the learned, but their are many here on AAG who may not fully grasp the full meaning of the doctrine known as "Justification through faith." hence the reason for their loss from time to time of their assurance of Salvation..

Also please forgive the repititions in what I have said. I simply wish to make sure that there is no misunderstanding experienced by Christians who have just come to the light and not had the time to discover ALL the marvelous truths waiting for them in God's Word.

The Lord Bless us all as He already has and continues doing.

Ron.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on October 23, 2010 at 1:46am

Ron,

This is a pretty broad statement that you made:

Another wonderful truth, which we do not realise, is that God never does anything in half measures. He has covered every aspect of our salvation.

I am thinking that you are saying that God has covered every aspect of our salvation once we have chosen to follow Him. You see, when you start talking about assurance, you must go back to the doctrines of grace which for the time being, we are not supposed to be talking about. I don't agree that the understanding of justification through faith completely gives assurance to the believer.

Where does that faith come from? Can I choose to believe? If so, can I then choose not to believe? I am not buying that your post alone can give assurance to the believer but for the time being I am going to refrain from stating my case.

I will say this, however: I do believe that yes, God has done everything to procure my salvation from start to finish and I don't believe there is any possible way for me to get away from that or for anyone to take that from me.


By the way, you better read this one fast as I may decide to delete it. However, David did say that he wanted others to jump in here and he is a commentator.

A brother,
Roy

Permalink Reply by RoyW on October 23, 2010 at 2:01am

Ron,

If I have mislabeled you, please accept my humble but sincere apology. I might just be a bad boy here. I do like your posts and I think I comment on most of them.


One more thing, I did not make a mistake on the word describing David. I think a commentator is a better word for him since he has something to say on just about every subject on this site. Maybe I should say a commentary. I remember when I first started reading comments on the different forums. My first thought was, "Who is this David guy with the stocking cap, he is commenting on everything everybody says.

Roy

Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on October 23, 2010 at 4:19am

Hi my brother,
I wondered where you were hiding.

Roy my comments were obviously directed at Christians who have already experienced God's Grace and salvation through Christ. My comments were to Christians who sadly found themselves doubting their salvation. Who continually experienced a lack of assurance in their Christian walk. If I had addressed non christians on the doctrine of Justification, it would have simply been "Gobbley-Gook" to them.

I would dare to say that sin is the cause of a Christian's lack of assurance; "How can I say I'm saved, when I'm still a sinner?" This is the cry of just about every New Born Christian, even though and despite the fact that they have accepted and walked the road of Grace. Our enemies will see to it that we do not realise that God looks at us through Christ, hence the continual up and down experience of joy and despair, with the concern of: "Am I really Saved? Have I really been born again?"

The doctrine of Justification once it is clearly understood settles once and for all time, the "Sin Card" Satan presents to us hoping to continually break down our walk with Christ and our assurance.

My faith and acceptance of Christ's finished work, gives me the Justification to be able to say: "All my sins have already been paid for in full." Once this is clearly understood and this fact acknowledged, we are able - and should - walk with full assurance that we have moved from death to eternal life an never to walk with a lack of assurance again. "I will seperate you from your sins as far as the East is from the West."

This is not sinless perfection, it simply means the price : "The soul that sins, shall die." has already been accomplished and settled by Christ on my behalf.

Do I still sin? I say to my shame, "Yes of course" But I no longer fear that my salvation is in jepordy. I take it to the Lord in a prayer of forgiveness and it is then with this absolute assurance that I can start my march towards a walk in Sanctification.

The doctrine of Justification then give me the ability, confidence and assurance that I am in right standing with God. Justification is a two way street. We have been justified in that all our sins have been paid for. Secondly God is Justified in His acceptance of us because sin has not gone unpunished, but paid for by His Son on our behalf. WOW! WOW! WOW! (Say those last three words slowly and with emphasis and see how it raises your spirit. It did mine!)

Forgive me for repeating my argument but I have done this in case there is a point missed or not understood by "Babes in Christ" who may be here on AAG.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on October 23, 2010 at 5:41am

Ron,

If I have the freedom to choose, why can't I just choose to walk away?

Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on October 23, 2010 at 9:01am

Hi Roy and Glazer,

I seem to have received both of your answers on one page. This allowed me to reply to only one of you.... So I will take the opportunity here of replying to both.

Roy I do not quite understand your question. But never the less I would say that
Justification is not a choice. Justification is a doctrine and comes as part of the package of Salvation. Unlike the Salvation of Grace which you have to either accept or walk away from, Justification is a "freebie" that comes with Salvation. One either understands it or does not. One can be Saved and experience a Christian walk full of Joy and assurance, or walk a life of continual incrimination by Satan. We are justified sinners. Our justification is a finished, perfect and completed work.

Unlike the degrees of Sanctification found in our lives. Fortunately there are NO degrees of Justification. Justification is complete in itself.
Sanctification is imperfect and incomplete and will remain so until the last breath we take. That is why unless we fully understand the doctrine of Justification, then the imperfection of our Sanctification will conclude in our hearts and minds that something is very wrong and we go mourning all of our days because we realise that we are still subject to sin, unless the day comes when we realise that despite our sin we are fully justified in Christ as we stand before God.

Grazer the answer you gave was that everything we need to know is in the Bible and it is there that we will find the answers.
Now while that is perfectly true, unfortunately I am a desperate sinner in desperate need of help. My knowledge of scripture is extremely limited. Every time I happen to open the Bible to search for relief, I read nothing but verses of condemnation. Woe is little ole me. Our reasons for introducing topics here on AAG, is to get us all thinking, perhaps arguing so that we can all benefit from each others ideas.
Our discussions here will one day help someone in need as we remember the thoughts and advice, yes even the arguments put forward on different topics.
This then is the Beauty of AAG. It is all done in Love, hoping to draw out the best in each of us so that we can all be fully armed and prepared for whatever the Lord may present to us. Be it the Salvation of a soul or even our own renewed decisions we made to follow Christ.

The Lord Bless us all.

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