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Are Atheists a Part of God's Plan?
Atheists are enemies of God, that much is beyond dispute. By their own admission, they oppose everything we as Christians stand for. In today's pop-culture landscape, they are like preachers and evangelists in their own right, preaching their own humanist gospel. Does the Lord use these people after His own agenda? Does the Lord use these people as instructors of the Gospel even if they preach it not? I think it's a mistake to assume that only pleasant and joyful things can convey Gospel messages.
Could someone like Richard Dawkins be doing the Lord's will without knowing it?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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The enemies of the cross are just that - the enemies and their father the Devil has them deeply blinded. God is able to use them for His holy purposes and at the same time hold them accountable for their actions (moral responsible being).
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>>Could someone like Richard Dawkins be doing the Lord's will without knowing it?
Very interesting question. No, Dawkins is not doing God's will; his teachings align with what Satan would have us believe, so he is very far from doing the will of God. However God is in complete control of His creation and allows it to do their own thing according to his good pleasure and purposes.
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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Interesting thinking, but can you elaborate how you think Dawkins is doing this?
I do understand that God said Pharaoh was his instrument; and that it was because of Pharaoh that God was able to demonstrate his power.
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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God is in complete control. God's Will is that all man be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:3,4)
However God will use someone or a circumstance, the gospel must be preached. A man needs to see how lost and dead in his sin he is and His need for a Saviour. There needs to be godly sorrow and repentence over the sin in one's life which will lead to a saving faith. If these criteria are being met, then men are saved.
Could someone like Richard Dawkins be doing the Lord's Will without knowing it? I don't think so.. Richard Dawkins is in complete opposition of God. Who knows though.. maybe he'll preach the foolishness of the gospel in all his mocking ways and the Lord will save him.
Blessings, Carla
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Hi Matteo, The question I posted was not my question but the question of the original post. I was answering it, and restated it for clarification.
Blessings, Carla
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Permalink Reply by The evidence based Stig on
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Oppose everything we as Christians stand for
That is a very provocative statement. What exactly do you mean by that? What do you think Christians stand for?
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By the same perspective, you could consider Satan to be God's agent. However, scripture does not say this.
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God is not commanding Satan to do evil. God uses all our short comings and the devil's evil goals to accomplish his ordained purposes. That is extremely different than God approving our sinfulness or Satan’s. There is tension when we are dealing with moral responsibility and God’s sovereignty because we cannot fully explain how they reconcile, but they do. We are finite, God is not and this is His Universe. He has not called us to understand him completely, but to believe Him.
"And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah." II Sam. 24:1
"And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel." I Chron. 21:1
God moved David and the other passage says that Satan moved David. Which is correct? Well both are. Some call these bible errors, but there is no error here. Nothing happens without God allowing it, that is what we are seeing here. Satan is the agent of evil, but God is in the back ground as the Sovereign Lord. David’s pride and Satan’s evil is something that they will be accountable for.
We have all heard this story:
An elderly lady was praying out loud in front of an open window. She had neither food nor money, and she was pleading with God to supply her with something to eat. Two boys heard her and decided to mock her faith. They went down to the store and bought a loaf of bread and a quart of milk. Then they stealthily put the milk and bread through the window. When the lady opened her eyes and saw the food, she praised God for hearing and answering her prayers. The boys stuck their heads up above the window sill and said, "Woman, you are stupid. God did not send those things. We put them there, and we did it just to prove to you how dumb you are. God did not bring that milk and bread; we brought them."
The lady smiled, thanked the boys for the food, and then said, "Maybe the devil brought these things, but God sent them."
Thomas Watson:
"God always has a hand in the action where the sin is, but He never has a hand in the sin of the action."
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Food for thought:
If God is sovereign and all knowing, which He is. If God created all things and holds all things together, which He did and does. If these things be true we can know some other things with certainty as well.
God knew that Satan would fall, and yet God created him anyway. God knew Adam and Eve would fall, yet He created them anyway. Thus, God being sovereign and knew these things in advance, we can be assured that they play a part in His plan, for God was not caught off-guard by Satan's rebellion or Adam and Eve's sin. For them to be a part of God's plan is different than saying God micromanages and causes every action of His creation. Sovereign God gave the angels and man certain liberties and a set of parameters to live within. Some of the angels failed as did Adam and Eve. God did not go to a back-up plan, thus this is all part of His original plan from the beginning. The mystery is how it all ties togther, yet we can be assured that God knows the answer to the mystery, for it is no mystery to Him, just us.
Lord Bless,
LT
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:) Well said my brother.
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You know LT, i'm always looking for ways to contextualize the truth of scripture for those who struggle to grasp the concepts as well. You have made an excellent point here that does that very well.
God is not a manipulative micro-manager. As you read scripture, you will see that he does not resort to force until it is the only resort. In Jesus' ministry I can only see that he resorted to force one time: the cleansing of the temple - that being the event of the over-turning the tables of the money changers and making a whip of cording. And that was not until he had taught and warned the ruling class of religious phonies for well over two years.
So, when we say God is sovereign, it does not mean that he is a bully. When we say God is in control, it does not mean that he is (in general) causing calamity and it does not mean that God is causing sinners to sin. What is does mean is that no one can thwart God's plans, nor defeat his goals because your efforts for doing so are going to figure into God's purposes in the end.
So, back to the original question, I think that all sinners and lost rebels are IN God's plan, in that He desires all sinners to come to a saving knowledge of the truth. If a person ultimately decides to never respond to God's call, then like Pharoah, God will use that person to accomplish his will in other ways, for the benefit of those who do inherit salvation.
Yet, we must be careful not to come up with the "Sympathy for the Devil" routine that says "well those who rebel are still part of God's plan and he's making them do such and such". Because God contends with us, each and all, to be with him or against him and he warns us of the consequences of choosing to be his enemy. As with Judas, yes they fit into God's plan, but woe to those who rebel. No Atheist scientist will be able to say "I didn't know".
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