Any Bible Scholars here?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Seek on January 24, 2017 at 10:36pm

But subtle differences do matter.  Like the Eskimo saying snow as in snow lying on the ground or snow falling as in an avalanche. One has a deeper meaning but they're both snow.  Is that making sense?

I know from the context sometimes you can tell. Like in the definition, this translation means a series of things. In reading a passage it can be clear it means to deny something while in another, disregard is more appropriate. But if they translated all as deny it can cause confusion.  Like saying he denied her comment. It would be better to say he disregarded her comment.  

Sometimes you can tell exactly what is meant but other times you can't.  What is it to disown or deny Christ? To deny He's the Son of God or deny you were hanging out with Him? Somehow I don't believe Peter would've gone to hell had he died when the cock crowed.  If so, disowning Christ would have a different connotation,  which may not come across well in translation.  

Additionally, different translations sometimes use variations of the word. One says disown and another deny. Acts 7:35 says Moses whom they "rejected" (same word).  Hebrews 11:24 translation is "disdained".

It's for these reasons I'm wondering what exactly is meant in this verse in light of Peter's denial.

Permalink Reply by Carla on January 27, 2017 at 8:42pm

Hey Seek,

I'm no bible scholar.  I do have a great resource on my computer called 'esword'.  You may have even heard of it.

It outlines the word 'deny' in these ways:

In 2 Timothy 2:12

 If we will deny (arneomai) Christ, he will also deny us

G533 (defined as the same both times in this verse)

 

ἀπαρνέομαι

aparneomai

ap-ar-neh'-om-ahee

From G575 and G720; to deny utterly, that is, disown, abstain: - deny.

Total KJV occurrences: 13

 

Matthew 26:75

 Then Peter remembered what Jesus had said, “Before the rooster crows, you will deny  me three times.” And he went outside and wept bitterly.

G720

 

ἀρνέομαι

arneomai

ar-neh'-om-ahee

Perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and the middle of G4483; to contradict, that is, disavow, reject, abnegate: - deny, refuse.

Total KJV occurrences: 31

Here's the link if you're interested

http://www.e-sword.net/

Permalink Reply by Mischelle on January 27, 2017 at 11:18pm

Seek,

Which translation of the Bible are you using?

I have a tool that can help me find everything you are asking.

Permalink Reply by Seek on January 28, 2017 at 8:42pm

I've used both KJV and NIV but use Mounce Interlinear to see the original Greek. I get the translations above like Carla, and all I can figure is where the word has several translations, different ones must be meant. Rather than say disown on one and disavow on another, they translated both as deny maybe?

Permalink Reply by Mischelle on January 28, 2017 at 9:26pm

Personally, I don't care for the KJV, not because it's not a good translation, it is a good one, but because it's so Shakespearean. I personally like the ESV.

Now to your question. As far as when a translator translates a word it must always be in context with the surrounding material. Because the translator has learned or is learning (as is my case) the language, they know the different nuances of the word and will know which word to use because of the context surrounding it.

When Peter denied Jesus, he denied Him out of fear for his life. It's the human side of all of us. But, if you will remember Jesus told Peter he would deny Him and that Satan wanted to sift him like wheat. That sifting was meant to reveal to Peter his weaknesses, and show Him he cannot do anything without the help of Jesus. Remember the scene where the women were told by the angel to go back and tell the disciples and Peter that He has risen? The "and Peter" part is significant here because of Peter denying Him. Can you just imagine how Peter must have felt? I can. Then we come to the scene on the beach where Jesus asks him three times, "Peter, do you love Me?" I believe this is to show Peter that Jesus has indeed forgiven Peter.

The key thing to remember is context. That is what they taught me and keyed in on, context.

The key context in 2 Timothy 3:13 for deny at the end of verse 13 "...for he cannot deny himself. "Is found in the last part of verse 9 "But the word of God is not bound!" Here Paul is reminding Timothy that the Lord is faithful to His Word which is what he meant by "if we are faithless, he remains faithful—he cannot deny himself." (ESV) He cannot deny His Word, which is Himself.

I hope this helps.

Lord's blessings

FYI, Mounce is a really good Greek instructor. We used his book in Greek class. He has a website where you can take Greek lessons. I know there first few are free. If you're interested, feel free to let me know and I will share the link.

Permalink Reply by Seek on January 30, 2017 at 5:20am

Where Peter denies Christ, it's not really clear on how deny is being used. Sometimes the context will answer the question but in this instance I've often wondered about this one. Since the Greek used is different variations, I wonder why the translators used the same word for each, rather than a more definitive similar word. It's the translations that I wonder about.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 30, 2017 at 10:17pm

HAHAHAHA

Great answers by everyone participating. 

Are you trying to figure out why Jesus did not deny Peter when Peter denied him? Being that God says he will deny those who denied him or simply trying to figure out why the choice of the word "Deny" was used in Peter's case?

Permalink Reply by Seek on January 31, 2017 at 3:41am

Both. LOL

Permalink Reply by Seek on February 10, 2017 at 5:22am

Try another one...

1 Timothy 1:13
Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief.

Mark 3:29
but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin."

I'm wondering if it's what's in the heart that makes the difference. Paul really thought he was doing what God wanted, and Peter didn't want to deny Jesus but got scared. I've heard people who think someone who blasphemes can never be saved because of 1 Timothy 1:13, yet Paul was. The same is true of denying Christ. Then I think "who then can be saved?" "but with God all things are possible."

Permalink Reply by Seek on February 11, 2017 at 2:57pm

Here we say ignorance of the law is no excuse but I don't think God sees it that way.

Permalink Reply by JB on February 11, 2017 at 8:28pm

To a born again Christian, God’s laws are written on our hearts, not a preset set of rules and regulations. If sin will send a person to hell, which one will it be? There is no degree of sin, in other words, there is no, one sin greater than another. Then if sin sends a person to hell, then we will all wind up in hell. According to, 1 John 1:8, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

There are too many Christians that have sin categorized, their pet sins, that they criticize others with. But what may be a sin for one, is not necessarily a sin for another. A couple of scriptures come to mind.  Romans 14:14-23 (KJV)
¹⁴  I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
¹⁵  But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
¹⁶  Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
¹⁷  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
¹⁸  For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
¹⁹  Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
²⁰  For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
²¹  It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
²²  Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
²³  And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. 

1 Corinthians 8:7-13 (KJV)
⁷  Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
⁸  But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
⁹  But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
¹⁰  For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
¹¹  And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
¹²  But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
¹³  Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

 

These scriptures are hard for a sin conscious Christian to understand, or receive, they are completely contrary to their religion. This is not minimizing the effects of sin; but to magnify the power of God.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Janice Pilkington on February 9, 2017 at 8:54am

I am a bible graduate don't know if that qualifies me as a scholar but here goes I know for sure that. once we have received Christ. as our Lord . and Saviour He will never leave us never forsake us. Don't let the. Devil torment you this is a lie straight from the pit of hell once your name is writing in the Lambs book of life it can never be earsed God did not give us a spirit of fear but of love power. and a sound mind