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Age of the earth?
I've seen some minor discussion of this before but want some thoughts on something.
I've read where people believe God could make the earth seem older or where the flood could account for it appearing older, etc. Then I saw someone not too long ago mention that when the Bible says on the first day...that a day is like a thousand years to God so a 6 day creation may have been 6,000 years.
So here I am in Proverbs and reading this morning, these verses have me wondering about that theory.
Proverbs 8:22-31
“The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be. When there were no watery depths, I was given birth, when there were no springs overflowing with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before he made the world or its fields or any of the dust of the earth. I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was constantly at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Most of the early church leaders, and many today believe that this "wisdom" mentioned in Proverbs 8 is referring to Jesus. Keep in mind that prophets often spoke of things they did not understand, but were guided by the Holy Spirit to record the very words He gave them. If we understand that this is referring to Jesus we simply see a picture of Jesus that illustrates that Jesus, who is eternal, existed before God created the heavens and the earth. Without getting into the finer details of some other questions that arise from this passage we can concluded that this does not speak to the age of creation, but only establishes that wisdom existed before creation. Again, if this is Jesus, as believed, we know that there are other Scripture that support this point being made. Revelation 13:8 is one example.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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i think that teaching is incorrect. Proverbs says Wisdom was formed. So, Wisdom is a precept, not a member of the trinity. If Jesus was "formed" then he is not the eternal God.
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Permalink Reply by thewatchman on
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Proverbs 8
1Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
2She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
3She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.
4Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.
5O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.
6Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.
7For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
8All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
9They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
10Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.
11For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
12I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.
13The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
14Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
15By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
16By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
17I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
18Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
19My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
20I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
21That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.
22The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
32Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
33Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
34Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
35For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
36But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.
I too, agree with LT that this is speaking of Jesus.
I also believe a few other verses can be found in John 1, such as starting in verse 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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I saw a teaching sometime ago where the speaker showed how scripture led him to believe Wisdom is the Holy Spirit with Jesus as the Word...the Trinity. It was interesting though I can't recall enough of it to give you enough information on how he portrayed this.
But the reason I'm wondering on the 6 days is from words like these:
I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
It was on the second and third days that God divided the waters and brought forth dry land.
Proverbs says Wisdom was formed before any of that but at the creation of the world and likens it to long ages ago rather than just a day. This is what had me wondering on this as I read it.
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Yes, I can see the curiosity from those words:
"I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."This is where I see the rendering of biblical translations quite important. For instance, look at these translations:
New International Version
I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
New Living Translation
I was appointed in ages past, at the very first, before the earth began.
English Standard Version
Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth.
New American Standard Bible
"From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.
King James Bible
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
I was formed before ancient times, from the beginning, before the earth began.
International Standard Version
From eternity I was appointed, from the beginning, from before there was land.
NET Bible
From eternity I was appointed, from the beginning, from before the world existed.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And before the world he was possessed by me, and from the beginning, before he would establish the Earth.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
I was appointed from everlasting from the first, before the earth began.
Jubilee Bible 2000
I was set up with eternal dominion, from the beginning, before the earth was.
King James 2000 Bible
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, before the earth was.
American King James Version
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
American Standard Version
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, Before the earth was.
Douay-Rheims Bible
I was set up from eternity, and of old before the earth was made.
Darby Bible Translation
I was set up from eternity, from the beginning, before the earth was.
English Revised Version
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
Webster's Bible Translation
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
World English Bible
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, before the earth existed.
Young's Literal Translation
From the age I was anointed, from the first, From former states of the earth.I don't want this to become about Biblical translations, but sometimes the meaning of text gets lost.
Jesus was with God from the beginning, but in Genesis 1 it establishes a day and afterwards saying this was the first day.
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
He has established a day for us here.
A thousand years to God is probably like a day, He is eternal. Time has no limitations with Him.
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i think that teaching is incorrect. Wisdom is a precept, not a member of the trinity.
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I'm not sure we could ever define it as a precept or anything else. God is wise. God created Wisdom. How can God create what He already had?
Sounds like one of those...if I go back in time and kill my parents before I was born, how could I have gone back in time and killed them...kinda paradoxes. ;-)
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Was doing a search to see if I could find that particular guy's take on Wisdom as the Holy Spirit,and found something rather interesting.
A closer look at Scripture itself reveals to us that Wisdom is not a deity, nor is it the feminine side of God. Proverbs 8:22 tells us that Wisdom was “begotten” of God…she is part of God’s creation or a “creature.” She then stands aside God as creation is formed, yet she herself is part of creation – the first creation of God. Whereas the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are eternal, Wisdom has a beginning. As a human being, Jesus is “begotten” however he existed eternally as the Word (Logos).
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You can search and find many different beliefs to the identity of "Wisdom" and in the end will be left with speculation at best. This text has been debated and used in various ways down through the years to the point of some attempting to use it ti proclaim that this text proves that Jesus was created and not eternal. Others attempt to establish that this proves God has a feminine side. All approached the text with an agenda and sought to proof text their belief ... a common approach, especially today. This is part of the "other questions" I was referring to. I think your original question is answered when we recognize that the text points to wisdom's existence before creation and the mention of creation does not attempt to affix time, but gives a brief creation picture as it looks back past that point. What we will not be able to do is definitively identify "Wisdom" as the text as directed by the Lord does not give us 100% clarity. To go one step further, though we may not be able to know with certainty the identity of "Wisdom" we can certainly exclude some things that "Wisdom" is not.
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Questions about what Wisdom is or the age of the earth are all speculation as we cannot know these things until we're with God and then know fully. But I still like to get insight from others of how they view these questions and others because doing so often brings insight into scripture in ways I may not have previously seen it.
The age of the earth is also something that was pulled into a conversation I had with a non-believer, and if we aren't prepared to answer these questions with confidence, they'll run right over us.
Two things were brought up in that discussion. Age of the earth and prophecy fulfilled. It left me searching for various historical prophecies that are proven. And there are quite a few of them.
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Some things we can know with greater certainty than others. The age of the earth is not as debatable as most attempt to make it based on the simple reading of the Word of God. Whereas, the knowledge of who the author is speaking about when referring to "wisdom" is less knowable due to the fact that the author does not identify "Wisdom" specifically for us.
I am suggesting that you should not inquire, but some things have more Biblical evidence than others.
Lord Bless,
LT
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