All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Abusive spouse
OK so we know that God hates divorce. But He also knows our weaknesses and so He allowed divorce in certain circumstances. There's been discussion on being unequally yoked and people seem to think it means not to marry an unbeliever but if already married they should remain together. Sometimes people point to 1 Corinthians 7, specifically:
If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
I was listening to Scripture this morning and heard something in this passage that caused me to stop the playback and take a closer look. Then in looking at the entire chapter, I realized some things that I really hadn't noticed before.
Now none of this means I feel people should run out and divorce. But neither should anyone subject themselves to abuse based on erroneous teaching. While all Scripture is useful, there are things to note.
1 Corinthians 71 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. 4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. 5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. 6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
OK let's stop here. Paul is allowed, or permitted, to say these things but God never commanded it of people. But there's good advice here. But he continues with the thought...
7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. 8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. 9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. 10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: 11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
People usually point out that this part is Paul's preference. That he was speaking of his thoughts on this and not God speaking. But we continue...
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. 13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
So here we go...PAUL'S preference. And he specifically let us know that God did not say this. And he spoke only of the unbelieving spouse, not the abusive one. We can address slaves or servants in a similar context. As Paul continues, he mentions this.
20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called. 21 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.
Again, we are quick to point out that God never condoned slavery. Why think He condoned abuse simply because Paul was speaking his own feelings on all of this. Then we get to...
28 But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
Paul still speaking his thoughts, not God's, states marriage isn't a sin. And he was never claiming any of this chapter to be a sin because God did not command it.
So telling people they sin if they divorce an abuser is NOT what God has said.
And I speak this...not God. ;-)
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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I have thought the exact same things LT posted here reading this discussion:
It is obvious you have been hurt in the past and I believe it clouds your judgment. You already assume if one believes something is a sin and will not accpet action contrary to that belief that they automatically condemn and some how want the worst for a person. You assume that because one does not accept sin that they will reject everyone and toss them to the curb. Do you realize that a true church must operate as a hospital seeking to reach the lost and help to heal the hurting. This can be done without compromise to one's faith, but also requires the other person to also acknowledge some things of God without attempting to rationalize them away.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Actually LT none of it has anything to do with me. I've not been in the type of situation I'm describing but I know some who have been and I see the news. And some do try to move out and walk away but the legal marriage can factor into continued abuse in a limited number of cases and the only real option could come down to divorce in order to survive. And I'm not working from assumptions on how the church handles it but from eye witness experience.
You probably saw me mention our church opening a new campus church that is closer to home so I started attending the new location. Pastor Rich is under the lead Bishop from our main church. Not only has the church for the most part preached divorce was a sin and regardless of one's reasons for it, they were still wrong to do it, but that same church stood by that teaching up until, and even after, Pastor Rich's wife divorced a man who beat her to near death. They met at this accusatory church and married and went elsewhere for a church family that did less condemning and was more supportive of people in trials. I don't know how long she stayed thinking that God commanded it and she had to obey. I should ask her sometime. But what I do know is that it nearly cost her her life. -
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Only one comment and then I will leave it alone.
You are working from experience regarding a church, not every church. Yes, many will act as that church, but many do not. One can stand on truth with out compromise and still extend love and help the hurting. Because one is wrong, or some are wrong, does not mean that all are wrong or that this is the norm for church universal.
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If it were just one it probably wouldn't bother me as much but I've honestly not heard of any church personally doing more to protect a person in a dangerous situation than just preaching the wrongness of seeking escape.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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No one has said not to leave a dangerous situation, but you seem to want people to adopt the POV that we are not acting like Christ in abusive situations, but are throwing condemnation upon a woman who is already in a difficult situation when we tell her “she’s in sin if she divorces," but it's God who has stated when divorce is permissable. No one is saying she's in sin if she leaves. It's true that for the child of God sins are forgiven and we can't condemn our brothers and sisters in Christ, but when they sin, they will face natural consequences and divine discipline for sinning.
Let me re-state that. Those who are in Christ who choose to disobey God are not under condemnation for making wrong choices but will face divine discipline and there are consequences for wrong choices that may even last a lifetime, depending on how serious the sin is.
All of our sins in the past, present, and future may be under the blood but unwise choices can have severe consequences naturally as well as be accompanied by chastisement from God.
Our wrong choices hurt others, too. So Jesus would defend the marriage covenant and disciple men and women to become obedient to God's will in relationships and to aim for forgiveness and reconciliation and growth. And that's what the church should do. It can even be done during a time of separation between the married couple.
Telling someone to end a marriage leaves no room for growth, change and reconciliation. It's up to the person to decide what course of action to take, and if the person is a believer, the person doesn't need God's truth watered down but needs to hear it straight.
Also, people try to minimize their own sinful contributions to failing relationships, and that includes abusive relationships.
What is the way you think a church should respond to someone in the situation of which you speak? Are you part of the church? Can you start a ministry in your church? Can you do some fund raising? Can you get involved in helping your chuch build a shelter that offers a safe place? Etceteras ... -
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That's the whole point. We don't tell them what to do! We tell them what God has said and there are definite sins where it's simply "Thus saith the Lord" and we aren't to argue with God about it. They are free to choose to obey or disobey God. We aren't to tell them that God understands disobedience. That's presumptuous. It's sinful on our part! The agencies teach them about options such as how to prosecute, how to protect themselves as best as possible if they choose not to prosecute or not to leave, how to stop the cycle of abuse or at least interrupt it, etc... They let them decide what to do and then help them accordingly. But vice versa a 75% statistic is a lot worse situation!
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What the bible says about disobedience:
https://www.openbible.info/topics/disobedience -
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Sometimes God's choices don't appear compassionate. Jonah was swallowed by a big fish. Lot lost everything because he chose the best land. Adam & Eve lost paradise. Israelites put to death for creating the idol while Moses was on the mountain. They also lost the promised land for their generation for complaining. The list goes on.
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Permalink Reply by JB on
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I was just wondering, how many here would go to any length to defend their family against abuse, robbery, or anything that is a threat to them or their families, with any means available? Though adultery is one of the Commandments, but so is lying, and stealing and a lot of other things, but it seems some here consider adultery as an unforgivable sin. Pro 24:16. “For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again…” We can see where some will say there are contradictions in the bible, Ro.14:14, I know and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself… 1 John 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” 1 John 1:9 if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So if we commit adultery by divorce and remarry, and we confess that sin, are we cleansed from ALL unrighteousness, or just certain ones?
I realize that all of us will at some time find scripture for justification of our actions. There is one scripture that is pretty hard to abide by at times though, that is, 1 Peter 2:19-20 “For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? But if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God”. Bible say “If our hearts condemns us, God is greater than our hearts, and knoweth all things, Beloved if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.”
JB
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JB,
Several of the postings talk about that forgiveness that you speak of. If a person has committed adultery and repents of the sin there is cleansing. I use cleansing, because I do not believe that one will lose their salvation, but if unrepentant they will experience divine discipline until such time as they come into alignment with God and His Word. When we do wrong we should be convicted in our hearts, and by wrong I simply mean go against God and His Word as a child of God. Divorce that does not align with God's Word is sin, not unforgivable, but requires true repentance.
I don't believe you are promoting the following, but will state it for clarity (hopefully). One cannot say "I know that this is a sin and am going to do it any way, because I can always say a prayer of repentance later." Of course that initial view would not lead to a prayer of repentance, but rather a prayer of hopeful escape. Repentance is always preceded with the understanding of guilt that leads to the repentance. One has to question the value of a prayer following premeditated sin, unless true conviction comes that draws the person to a point of repentance and not just an action.
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LT. Hope we are beating a dead horse here.
“but requires true repentance”, so what would true repentance look like in this discussion?
“Divorce that does not align with God's Word is sin”,
So it is with marriage; 2 Cor. 6:14 “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers…”? How would one rectify a marriage after one spouse coming to the Lord, and the other not, but is persecuted for doing so?
I don’t want anyone think that I condone sin in any fashion, I hate it as much as any, even when I over eat food that I really like, knowing I will suffer the consequences of it later that night. I don’t see various levels of sin, the bible tells me “If I break one of the commandments “laws” I am guilty of them all” James 2:8-13. “Esp. vs 10” and Ro.14, Again, vs. 23 says, “Whatsoever is not of faith is sin”. I couldn’t over eat by faith. “Conviction” it does take discipline, or at least obedience to the conviction, with the knowledge of the consequences.
“I know that this is a sin and am going to do it anyway, because I can always say a prayer of repentance later.”
We do a lot of things, before we think. Bible says in Gal.5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty, wherewith Christ hath made us free…And Gal.5:13, we have been called unto liberty, only use not this liberty as an occasion to the flesh.
Once a divorce has been decreed, and marrying another has been consummated; how does one repent from it and still maintain a sense of peace? Two wrongs doesn’t make a right. So with the philosophy derived from a sin consciousness, rather than a righteousness consciousness; one will live under self-condemnation for the rest of their lives. So then we start grabbing for scriptures for justification, we find Ro.8:1, & Phil.3:13-14.
I believe there must be a balance somewhere so as to live a life peacefully after committing a sinful act. I personally believe that peace comes through seeing life, (after coming to the Lord) through the eyes of the New Creation, rather than religiously, or legalistically. Not saying we have a license to sin because we are new creation people, or we are in Christ. No, we have the mind of Christ, and those laws are written in our hearts to guide us, by way of the Holy Spirit.
He was made sin, though He never sinned, we were made righteous, though we were never righteous. Isa.43:25, says, I, even I, am He that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. How did David, a man after God’s own heart, regain peace after committing adultery? I believe we need to re-establish our identity with Christ, and not after the world’s way of justification.
I’m sorry; I haven’t read all of the responses (fully) pertaining to this discussion, so hoping things said are not too repetitive.
Lord Bless
JB
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