The role of a Pastor.

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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on March 9, 2008 at 9:59am

Good day Hope grace,

May I say up front, I would not work or deal with a firm or consortium that did not have a hierarchy set in place in order to control. Without this, imagine the bedlam. One will give an order another will cancel it.
Neither would I worship in a church where the Pastor was sidelined and the membership or a single member took control in matters relating to the church and it's membership.

As in all businesses and even churches, there has to be a reference point, a hierarchy of Leaders, workers etc. Each person should have someone to report to.

In the Church, each and everyone appointed as office bearers will hold their office as responsible Christians under the authority of God.

Generally the order of hierarchy in most churches will have the Pastor as the Leader, assisted by Elders and Deacons in that order. These Leaders may call on members to assist them in their duties. Each and everyone will hold their office as responsible Christians under the authority of God.

In simple terms without heavy definitions:

None will go above the authority of their position given to them by the Church membership.
None will usurp the authority of the person above him or her.
All of the above will report to the Pastor to whom they are responsible.
The Pastor and not the Leadership will report to the Church Membership to whom he alone is reponsible. (Unless someone is appointed in the pastor's absence)

No one in the church membership may make decisions affecting the church without first approaching the appointed Leaders.
Neither will anyone in the Church membership take on the responsibilities of any of the appointed leaders without permission, unless requested.

Naturally all members have the freedom to discuss and share their faith and their beliefs with each other. They should be encouraging one another to live as our Lord and Saviour would have them live.
In matters where a serious difference in behaviour or beliefs between members occur, unless you are qualified to assist in the particular problem it would be wise to suggest that the one with a different belief, doctrine or theory, approached those who are better qualified to explain.
It must also be realised that the ability to quote Biblical references in the form of cliches is not a qualification to deal with a major aberration.

Church discipline.
The Pastor is responsible to the church to ensure that everything is undertaken decently and in order.
Should the membership be aware that there is a major aberration regarding a member, they should first report it to the Pastor. The Pastor will have the responsibility of correcting the problem. The Pastor may request assistance from the membership - or even a fellow church - who may be qualified to assist in the problem.

Once the problem has been reported, no single member or group of members will take matters in their own hands or make any decisions affecting the outcome of the investigation. This would be a breakdown of the authority given to the leadership. It would also be tantamount to displaying the little faith one has in the Leadership, or become an arrogant suggestion, that one is far more capable of resolving the problem than those appointed. Finally it could also show a lack of faith that God is capable of appointing suitable Leadership, from within the membership.

Once the investigation is completed the Pastor will report back to the membership. Should the problem be of such magnitude, the membership will decide on the disciplinary steps to be taken.
It must be remembered that the Pastor is an employee of the church. They may listen to his suggestions but the ultimate decision is theirs.
The time for defence, accusation or requests for reconsideration must be settled here and not afterwards in heated discussions. Once a decision is made all members must abide by it.

The reason for the membership to make the decision, is to avoid divisions amongst Church members in that all have been particpants in the final decision.

You Brother and Friend in Christ - Ron

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Permalink Reply by Mandy on March 9, 2008 at 1:01pm

Hope Grace: I do believe that we are all to be witnesses to the Lord. The problem here is that person past judgement in an inappropriate manner. Some people are so very ingnorant to mental illnesses. They don't believe they are real illnesses. I am a nurse. though my primary area is ICU, I have taken care of many people with mental disorders, who have other multiple health issues as well. Not to say that because you have a mental disorder you will develop other health issues, but some just do. When we take care of the pt we take a "holistic" view. Meaning the entire problems of the pt from social, physical and psychological. For what this person did to your family was stepping way over the line. and not witnessing, but judgement. To disciple to each other we must not ever input our view or judgemnet of our own issues; however witness as Jesus Christ did; loving all persons no matter their back ground. And not placing blame on an illness to be sin. Just because someone has cancer or a heartattack, does that mean it is due to demons or sin. Of course not.
I am so sorry your family had to endure this. It created a dysfuntional household for you. It layed feelings of guilt and shame; where there should never had been. I pray for your family and their healing. At that the broken relationships caused by this will be restored to you. Love your sister in Christ Mandy

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Permalink Reply by Mandy on March 9, 2008 at 5:40pm

Yes I agree with you, and every situation that a family or individual presents to the church should be dealt with on the circumstances to the individual. Not a all for one guide. The church should handle situations in the Loving environment as Jesus would. Not holding the person in judgement. But allowing a learning experience. I have been to a church wich was very judgemental of the people. When we lived near this particular church and attended; I was ingnorant to how church officials where to take a stance on issues. But as I have learned more, I have realized that some churches, no matter the intentions of all; do and are jugemental in issues. I have been the victim of such churches. My situation was based on money and time; that was to be given to the church. Which at the time I had 2 preschoolers and was working 12 hour night shifts. They did not see that as a roadblock for my time. And felt that since I was home during the daytime I should be able to commit more time. When I explained that my daytime was like your nighttime, they never really "got that concept" And they treated me harsh. This church happened to be in the heart of a very wealthy neighborhood; which most mothers did not have to work. I felt judged by the fact that I was a working mother and I didn't measure up to the other women of the church. Who came to church in their designer clothing, shoes, purses and makeup. Because I was not like that, noone wanted to associate with me.

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Permalink Reply by Hope Grace on March 10, 2008 at 8:36am

Thank you for the encouragement. My biggest prayer would be that my mother would find healing. I fear that at this stage in her life perhaps she's just to set in her way to seek out change but it has made things difficult. For example I cannot live in the same state because for some reason my presence makes her quite all her jobs. I fear I became an enabler. She's better adjusted and holds down jobs if I live far away. However this means I can't live where I want to, close to childhood friends and family. My childhood Pastor did try to rectify things but she wouldn't listen.
I'm so sorry you had to experience such 'ungrace' in a church. And I'm happy you didn't let that church's failing discolor your view of God. This happens so often and so many people slip through the cracks because they forget that the attitudes, behaviors and judgments of God’s children don't always reflect the heart of God Himself. We have a surgical nurse in our church and his hours are very tough. I’ll keep you in my prayers.

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Permalink Reply by Pastor Bob B on March 10, 2008 at 3:18pm

Hope Grace is a perfect name for you for all you have gone through. The scripture says we should comfort the feebleminded and I feel this relates to people like your mom. Nothing that happened to your mom had anything to do with comfort or The Holy Spirit that is also called,”The Comforter”.
My mother in law suffered from the same affliction for years. People shunned her, but I thank God that she had a lot of people loving on her. She passed away 6 years ago and my Pastor came with the family and all he did was reach down and kiss her on the forehead, he comforted her and it touched the heat of God.

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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on March 9, 2008 at 11:01pm

Hi Rick, Thank you for the extra thought.
Yes, Some Pastors exceed their responsibilities. (Naughty boys - Hi) Usually they are very good in what they do, hence they get more leeway into telling the church what they expect and want.
Sometimes the church body is not even aware of it. If the membership is not capable of realising this, then perhaps this is the reason why the Pastor takes on the added responsibilities.
In this case the Pastor may or may not be doing this to gloryfy himself, but being amongst a bunch of "Duh's - he wants to get on with the job and get it done.
Any Pastor worth his salt will soon look for "greener pastures" in order to challenge his own intellect.

One of the checks and balances can be the membership numbers. The growth or falling away of members, is usually a good thermometer as to how efficiently the work is being undertaken by the Pastor and Leadership.
Another thermometer, are complaints or squabbles between the leadership and the Pastor. Once the membership becomes aware of this, it becomes their responsiblity to find the cause. This also applies to members complaining of the Leadership.
Your friend in Christ - Ron.

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Permalink Reply by Hope Grace on March 10, 2008 at 9:13am

In my early 20’s my childhood pastor was going to merge churches with another minister. The other minister didn't have a building of his own. We had been in fellowship with that church for a number of years and it seemed like a natural step. We had a large building and more than enough room. Both Pastors were going to share responsibilities. We did a trial run and I was blown away by the insight I received in "Controlling Pastors". The first Sunday in our trial run our Sunday school teachers and ushers were told they weren't needed anymore. In the following weeks they took over every ministry we'd had except the Deaf Ministry and that was only because they didn't have any interpreters. That Pastor began demanding we report our weekly earnings so he could make sure we were giving the appropriate amount in tithes. One by one the members of our church went to our pastor and told him this didn't feel right. We called a family meeting of just our group and decided to stop the experiment. Some of us tried to keep in touch with friends we had made in the other congregation and discovered that they had been told not to communicate with us and that we were outside the will of God and a bad influence. About a year and a half later that church split and my childhood Pastor became an advisor to the new ‘rebels’.
Now that church had elders and decans but they all seemed to share this control mentality and anyone that sought to bring a little insight in was kicked out of the church. I understand this is an extreme example but when the leadership refuses to heed the thermometer.... This Pastors method of retaining power was just to remove any opposition to him from his leadership.

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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on March 10, 2008 at 12:10pm

Hi Rick,
Yes this can and does happen - The problem of course is a weak membership being taken advantage of. The other problem is the longer the Pastor serves at the church, the more opportunity he has of gathering"cronies" around himself. Almost a form of "job protection" by the Pastor.
It's not easy for a 4 or 5 members to complain to the membership, about the leadership when the Pastor has manipulated a number of "cronies:" to his side.

But I think we are going off the beaten track by pointing to churches that have been dominated by Pastors. The question was not "Do we know of Pastors who dominate the churches?" or "Have you experienced Pastors who take control of Churches?"

Hope Grace's question was:

"What do you think? Is it solely the pastor’s responsibility? Can or should all of the church members share in that responsibility?"

To this question I Gave a brief detailed response, on how I thought a Church should operate where the entire membership was involved through the appointment by the Membership, of responsible leaders taken from the members, who would fall under the guidance of the Pastor, who was ultimately answerable to the entire membership for the smooth running of the church in a decent and orderly manner and the Spiritual upliftment of the church members."
As always - Your brother and friend in Christ - Ron.

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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on March 10, 2008 at 10:47pm

Good Morning Rick,
Hey Chum! Absolutely no need to apologize. You are apologizing to a battle scarred old warhorse, who is so brain damaged that he wakes himself up, to remind himself. that he better get some sleep.

I gave a brief review of required foundations in Church leadership in my first reply to H.Grace's discussion. I am sure that not everything was covered and perhaps there are others who can add to the responsibilities, limitations, types of warning barometers, duties, etc. etc.
The main requirement is that between the Church Body (Membership) and the Pastor there are straight forward rules and no hidden agenda's.
Plus it may be a good idea if the Church Body did not not have all their "Bold stalwart" and outspoken men as part of the leadership under the Pastor, but rather kept apart as protectors of the Church Body, should the need arise for someone to speak up, should problems regarding the Pastor and leadership arise.
A good idea and this should be imperative. None of the Leadership can spend more than 1 or 2 years of duty without being relieved and someone else step into their shoes.

AND....... Hey! Pastors.... partakers in "allaboutgod" ......... Please, we need your input here.
Your brother and friend in Christ - Ron

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