Just a question

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by maha on March 4, 2008 at 7:26am

Dear Ron,
I already said we are not supposed to take friends from Jews or Christians when they mean harm or try to make us bend our rules. Since you know or I suppose read our Holly Quran, try reading it again from Surah 5:49, 5:50, 5:51, 5:52 till 5:59, you will see that He means some of you not ALL Christians or ALL Jews!

I know that there is only one God, Allah as we name Him, God is the one who created Adam, Noah, … till the last prophet Muhammed , peace be upon them all. It doesn’t mean that since there are differences that He is not the same
Surah 5:48: To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

And it doesn’t mean He made mistakes before then He corrected them. When God send Muses or Jesus did He send them to all people??? They were sent to Israel, their message wasn’t widely to everyone.
Key difference between our Holly Quran and yours is that our Book says that yours is not the one that the Christ got from God: Jesus died in the Bible and actually stated at Mark 15:34 and Matthew 27:46??? How it is given to Jesus pbuh when He is dead? And also what is the story of having many Bibles and why it’s written by the name of Mathew or Luck or others? I won’t say it’s totally wrong but people are writing it from their point of view and people make mistakes, so maybe they included some mistakes and as far as I know some started writing the bible after Jesus Christ death by around 90 years and based on others stories!!!
Doesn’t Jesus Christ says in King’s James Bible “I have many things to tell you, but you can’t bear them now”, “ Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come”, “And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment”

Does that mean he doesn’t have the solution of all of their problems? No, of course he had it all because God is telling him but people were not ready to receive it yet as God knows why. And who is the Spirit of truth? That will continue from what he left? In Quran: This is Muhammed. Islam come to fulfill his previous talk. So God, Allah, is neither mistaken nor different than ours.

This is really what I believe in, and returning back to the friendship between Muslims and others from the people of the book issue again, it’s not forbidden, otherwise I won’t be here

Sincerely
your friend

Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on March 4, 2008 at 12:57pm

Good Morning,
I have also highlighted your questions you asked. My reply is fairly long but it will help you. I trust you will read it and not let my labours be in vain

Your Questions
And also what is the story of having many Bibles and why it’s written by the name of Mathew or Luck or others? I won’t say it’s totally wrong but people are writing it from their point of view and people make mistakes, so maybe they included some mistakes and as far as I know some started writing the bible after Jesus Christ death by around 90 years and based on others stories!!!

What you are saying is that the Bible has mistakes and people wrote from their own point of view and could be wrong and that it's possible that the New Testament was only written in 90AD.

The fact that many men wrote the Bible, is what makes the Bible stand out as a unique Book amongst every other book.
What makes it so remarkable is the fact that many of the authors lived at different times and never knew each other. Neither did they have the opportunity of reading all the books that others wrote concerning God and His plan for Salvation. Yet every one of them had the same theme and never contradicted each other. Allow me to give an few examples.

King David wrote the following about Jesus being crucified 1,500 years before Jesus was crucified or even born.

False witnesses would accuse Him
Jesus would be betrayed by a friend
He would be hated without a cause
He would be crucified amongst sinners
Mocked and insulted on the cross
They would pierce His hands and Feet
Would be given gall and Vinegar to drink
While suffering He would pray for His enemies
Soldiers would gamble for His clothes
would cry out from the cross "My God, my God why have you forsaken me?

Isaiah wrote 700 years before Christ was born.

He would be born of a Virgin
He would be rejected by the Jews
He would be silent when accused
He would be hit and spat upon
He would die for us
He would be crucified with Sinners
He would be buried with the rich

Micah wrote 722 years beforeChrist's Birth

The place where Christ would be born.

Daniel wrote 539 years before Christ was Born.

The Time when Christ would be Born.

Zechariah wrote 515 years before Christ was Born

Jesus would ride triumphantly on a donkey into Jerusalem.
Jesus would be sold for thirty pieces of Silver.

I have given you 21 prophecies that were written hundreds of years before Christ was born. WE see that He fulfilled all these prophecies to the letter. What is the possibility that he fulfilled them by chance or by a fluke?
Remember He was hanging on a Cross, He could not tell them what to do;
For instance he couldn't say: "Hey guys, you are supposed to gamble for my clothes" or "Listen you are supposed to give me Gall and Vinegar to drink now."
No! He was helpless and was a victim of the soldiers.
Josh Mc Dowell in His book speaks of the probabilities of Jesus fulfilling only 8 of all the prophecies by chance or fluke. A mathematician worked it out. That if Christ fulfilled only 8 of the prophecies by a fluke or simply by chance it would be Ten to the Power of 17. That is 10 with 17 zeroes. 10,00,000,000,000,000,000. To give us some idea of how impossible this is he explains. "Take the entire state of Texas, Cover it 3 feet deep with silver dollars. Then take one silver dollar and paint it red. Throw it anywhere amongst the dollars covering Texas and mix them all up thouroughly. Now take a Blind man and let him walk over the state of Texas as long as he likes. But when he finally bends down to pick up a dollar. It must be the red one. That is how much chance Jesus had of fulfilling 8 prophecies by fluke or by chance. But what about the other 13 prophecies that I also mentioned above. For Jesus to fulfill all 21 prophecies by chance is impossible. Pages of paper would be required just to put down all the zeroes.

Permalink Reply by maha on March 7, 2008 at 11:55am

Good Day
I don't know anything about the Bible but having many authers from different times doesn't make it unique, we have many books with many authors. It's not God's words, and Jesus Christ pbuh did not write it nor it was written in his time so he can check it! It it's their words and that's why I believe it won't be objective, since humans thinking is controlled by lots of factors!
Don't you think so, I mean you and I hold to our believes and each of us think that what we have is right! you know the Bible and I know the Quran and God help the one who knows the truth to convince the other... Because at last that is what we, you and I, want at the end

God Bless you

Permalink Reply by Phabs on February 28, 2008 at 5:25pm

Hi Only, your comments are in bold so you may know what I'm answering to.
I'm underline scripture when I quote it.
Hello Phabs,
Almighty God has all options,
I'm not quite sure about this Only, Please understand, I'm not limiting the power of GOD, GOD is a GOD of order, HE is a holy GOD, any options that is not in line with HIS nature is not an option for HIM.

He always has the right to make whatever He thinks of, even if this is to forgive us all or to do the opposite.
I would agree that He can do everything that HE WANTS
So He doesn’t need to make a scarify!
I disagree with that, because God loves us, He sacrificed for us, He needed to, not because we are worthy, or deserving but because love requires sacrifices. I remember a brother at my church did a study on 1 Cor 13 "Love is patient" and he was explaining to us how the word patient there meant long suffering, to sacrifice. Loving those who don't deserve it requires the utmost sacrifice


You said what other possible way for him to save us! He just told us to not asking for His forgiveness, to be sorry for our sins that we commit, not to do it again and do good deeds that erase the bad ones, as simple as that.
Not quite Only, oh if it really only were that simple. But you see without shed blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

Lev 17:11 for the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life

Hebrews 9:22
In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

So you see we could not have just said "sorry I won't do it again" and have it be called even, GOD HIMSELF requires that blood be shed in order for HIM to forgive in the Mosaic law, Christ came to fulfill the very law of GOD.

When God sent messengers and prophets, peace be upon them all, He tried to give us other chances and as you say to fulfill our laws, and to declare that He, almighty God, is your and our God
Only God never intended for us to fulfill the law, the purpose of the law was to show us how much we needed HIM, how sinful were are, how incapable we are of keeping the law. That's why Christ had to come. Because not one, but the PERFECT ONE could have kept the law, not one.

Another question: while looking around the fourms, all prayers were directed to Jesus Christ pbuh not to God. Don't you all pray to God directly? Or do you think that either way work?

God Bless You
Prayers ought to be directed to the Father. Mainline Christianity likes to say "to the Father, through the Son, by the Spirit" In my opinion, prayers to Christ are ok because HE is indeed God, as are prayers to the Spirit for He is God. The proper way I believe is to pray the Father because that's what Jesus said to do.
In Christ

Permalink Reply by maha on March 1, 2008 at 1:54am

I still will say Almighty God has all options, I don't know what do you mean by any options that is not in line with his nature is not an option for Him, please explain more.
Also sacrify, God created us, and i agree He loves us, but he gave us the option to choose between Him and the Devil and he hold us to that. He gives us so many alternatives, so many options and our whole lives to get back to Him and confess that He is Almighty God. If he wants to give all of us heaven, He would do, and still be just and no one can judge Him.

The blood sacrify; what do you mean by that, I mean in general, can we apply this to every sin we make! explain more please

The proper way I believe is to pray the Father because that's what Jesus said to do This is strange to me, I remember I asked this question to a christian and she get so mad and I thought this is not a proper question to ask, and when I asked that in this fourm I thought you all will kick me out of here :)

Thanks you all for your patiance and I repeat, I don't want to judge I want to understand

Permalink Reply by Phabs on March 1, 2008 at 1:26pm

I still will say Almighty God has all options, I don't know what do you mean by any options that is not in line with his nature is not an option for Him, please explain more.

Hey Only,
Let's take ourselves as an example, say we wanted to travel, to go somewhere, our options are limited. The option of flying, not on an airplane, but literally flying is not possible, because human beings don't have wings, so we are limited by our nature.

The same way God has all options that are in line with HIS nature . GOD does not have the option of being unloving for example, because He is love, He does not have the option of being unholy, He does not have the option of being untrue or unjust. So though He is omnipotent, He can not do something that contradicts who HE is.
That’s what I mean by Him not having all options.


Also sacrify, God created us, and i agree He loves us, but he gave us the option to choose between Him and the Devil and he hold us to that. He gives us so many alternatives, so many options and our whole lives to get back to Him and confess that He is Almighty God. If he wants to give all of us heaven, He would do, and still be just and no one can judge Him.
Because Christ died for our sins then we can go to God and be forgiven of our transgressions. Without Christ having been sacrifice to begin with then, we would not have that option. so the options that we have to go to Him is only after the sacrifice of Christ.



The blood sacrify; what do you mean by that, I mean in general, can we apply this to every sin we make! explain more please

The law of God requires that in order for there to be forgiveness, blood has to be shed. That is the law. God would not break HIS own law. So in order for us to be forgiven, somehow, someway blood had to be shed.

Do you agree or disagree with that? I want to know what's your opinion on that first.

This is strange to me, I remember I asked this question to a christian and she get so mad and I thought this is not a proper question to ask, and when I asked that in this fourm I thought you all will kick me out of here :)

Thanks you all for your patiance and I repeat, I don't want to judge I want to understand

I don't know why she got mad at you. Our faith really has nothing to hide, so i think it's great that you are asking questions. hopefully we can help you with any questions you may have on why we believe what we believe.

Permalink Reply by maha on March 3, 2008 at 10:00am

Thanks Phebe again
I'll only reply about God's and what is in-line with His nature. We don't know God, and we don't know what is His nature except of what He told us. So you can't apply our rules or our way of thinking when you talk about Him! God said that he will punish the unbelievers, does that make Him bad or good, when a child dies for a mother who got mad with God, is he unfair? no He is not, it's His right, He gave Him life and He took it away, the mother doesn't care if her child is in heaven, because she can't imagine her life with her child and blames God, although it might be a test for her too!. Maybe it's not a good example. But you can't apply our human way of thinking on God, whether just or not, being holly or not, Do you really think can say that He is Just or not about God? No I don't think so

Permalink Reply by Pastor Bob B on March 3, 2008 at 10:39am

You said, "We don't know God, and we don't know what is His nature is except of what He told us." This is true but we also know God through His son Jesus Christ. Jesus revealed to us God as a loving Father, That God is not only a God of judgement, but as one who is also full of mercy and grace. I have come to know God as my Father that is what I call Him when I pray, Jesus told us it was how we should pray to Our Father who is in Heaven. To me it would be hard for me to serve a nonpersonal God who was watching me looking for me to make a mistake so He could punish me all the time. As a Father I disciplined my child when they wandered beyond the limits I had set for them. Example, I would tell them not to walk in the road because of the danger of getting hit by a car. If they wandered into the road then I would discipline them to keep them safe. It was because of my love for them I had to do this. This is the kind of God Jesus showed us.

Permalink Reply by StevenSC1227 on February 25, 2008 at 10:24pm

Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world. He was raised from the dead 3 days later and told his disciples and those that followed him that he would always be with us till the end of the world. He will not die. Hope this answered your question. Have a blessed day.

Permalink Reply by maha on March 3, 2008 at 11:03am

Replying to what you say Bob,
I never meant that God is nonpersonal , God is more merceful that a mother to her child, His mercy is more than all of mercy on all human hearts, and angels too. And He doesn't waits for a mistake, I only say that He is not like us!, and how we describe Him should be different, and with more honer .

You know, we pray to the same God, but it's like you say "My God is better" and I reply "My God is better". at least the heavenly Father! :)
I alway hope that we muslims and christians find that one day...

Permalink Reply by Phabs on March 3, 2008 at 8:26pm

Thanks Phebe again
I'll only reply about God's and what is in-line with His nature. We don't know God, and we don't know what is His nature except of what He told us. So you can't apply our rules or our way of thinking when you talk about Him!
Only
We both know that two opposing things cannot be true at the same time, a person cannot be short and tall at the same time. From what God has revealed to us about Himself, who HE is, we can confidently say what/who He isn't. He has revealed that HE is a God of order, therefore we can confidently say that anything that is disorderly is not an option for HIM. HE has revealed that HE is all-intelligent, therefore we can conclude that anything that is un-intelligent, stupid, is not an option for HIM. I'm not applying human rules to an eternal GOD. It's simply logical to say two opposite things cannot be true. There's this verse in Deut that I love. Deut 29:29 "The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law" everything that GOD has revealed is to us, so that we may better serve HIM and so we may grow in knowledge of HIM. God wants us to know Him (as much as humanly possible) otherwise HE would not have revealed anything to us, don't you think so?

God said that he will punish the unbelievers, does that make Him bad or good, when a child dies for a mother who got mad with God, is he unfair? no He is not, it's His right, He gave Him life and He took it away, the mother doesn't care if her child is in heaven, because she can't imagine her life with her child and blames God, although it might be a test for her too!. Maybe it's not a good example. But you can't apply our human way of thinking on God, whether just or not, being holly or not, Do you really think can say that He is Just or not about God? No I don't think so

I understand what you are saying and i'm not disagreeing with you in that sense. What I said was that we know that GOD is just all the time, that HE is holy all the time, because HIS word says so. and because we know that, we know the opposite cannot be true as well. We know that GOD can never be unjust, and HE can never be unholy.
This all goes back to the questions of how else could GOD have saved us, and the point is that regarding all options, anything that contradicts HIS nature from what HE has already revealed to us is not an option for HIM.


I'm curious as tou your opinion regarding the law and it's demand for blood in order to forgive.

Permalink Reply by maha on March 4, 2008 at 8:24am

you are absolutely right and I agree with you. You and I believe in God, Allah, each in her own way, and we seek the truth.
God created us to build this world, seek the truth and knowledge and this is in our nature. We always wonder who created us even if we don’t have a believer parent, this enormous world and space can’t be made by itself as some scientists believe! Christians, Jews and Muslims got privilege over others and as God stated in Quran, he didn’t make us one nation to test all of us and not to fight and it’s for us to judge and try our best and God will judge us for how much sincerely we are in trying
I don't know anything of blood cacrifies since we don't have it in Quran, but we do have lots of ways for us so God to forgive us when we make sins, like free a slave if we can, we can't now since there are no one :), also if we can help others like seving food for hungry people and this is the only way blood can help,
I got from your talk previously that blood sacrifies means humans, I have a ridicules question: you don't mean giving human sacrifies right? :) because this is what got in my mind when you say blood sacrifies

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4
• 5
• 6
• Next ›
• Page