Witnessing: Please give me scriputre where it clearly states that Jesus is God.

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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on October 3, 2008 at 12:22am

Hi Paige,
Trust you are well and rejoicing.
It would help if you mentioned the name of the cult, but I am going to take a guess and say that they could be J.W.'s. "Jehovah Witnesses" are the main group in saying that Jesus is not God.

I will not go into the many passages of scripture that prove that Jesus is God, except to quote John ch 1 verse 1. as I always do when talking to J.W.'s.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Jhn 1:1.

JW's love it when you quote this verse because they really believe that they have the perfect answer to breaking it down to prove that Jesus is not God.

Their argument goes as follows: "When translating from the original Greek the translators left out the artice "a" . So the the original Greek reads: "the word was a god" Therefore they argue that Jesus according to the New Testament, is a god.

I always act dumb when they say this, and ask: "Is this what someone else has said, and therefore you blindly believe it, or have you read it yourself?" I don't know why but they always say "Yes, we have read it ourselves." (Possibly trying to give it more authority, when they say this)

I then get out my Greek New Testament and hand it to them unopened and say: "Please read it to me".
It becomes a comedy as they try and find the verse in the Greek. Finally I take the Greek New Testament back and open it up to John 1:1 and hand it back to them saying: "OK there it is please read it to me now". Obviously they can't and have shown themselves to have told a lie, when they said that they had read it themselves in the Greek. I am quite cruel at this stage and point out that they have lied to me.

Further to this I translate the verse for them and point out that in the Greek language there is no indefinite article, namely "a" so the verse could never read: "a god"
Furthermore in this verse the word God starts with a capital letter "(T)heos" and never (t)heos.

The verse actually reads: "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with the God and the God was the Word.

This verse quite clearly also tells us that they are both one and the same person yet separate from each other.

The Greek when wanting to emphasize who or what is being referred to, uses the definite article "the" so that there can be no mistaking who or what is being referred to. namely: "The Word" "The God"

J.W.'s are not Theological scholars. Their theology only goes as far as J.W. doctrine which they sit in a class and go over and over the same 5 or 6 faulty beliefs until they have it off pat and then go out and fool the foolish. Remove them from their pat answers and try to take them deeper into scripture and they fade. Usually they say: "We will bring someone else who can really help you with your questions."
When it comes to John 1:1 and being shown up as liars, you will never see them again.

In English translations we use the indefinite article "a" when the sentence needs to make sense in English, but never where it would change the meaning of the Greek sentence.

Of Course I don't expect you to tackle this as I have, but rather than waste your time arguing with the devil, BE FIRM and when they arrive simply tell them that you are not interested. Don't thank them for anything, just say "GOODBYE".

An easy way of finding verses that refer to Jesus as God Himself is with a comprehensive concordance.

I would have done this for you, but that would never help you to get to know your Bible personally.

Lotsa Christian Love to you and your family. - Ron

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Permalink Reply by LucyP on August 15, 2011 at 11:50am

Brilliant. Going to get me a Greek New Testament. Thanks for this.

 

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Permalink Reply by Gilly on October 5, 2008 at 3:40pm

Hi Paige.
In witnessing to cults you can find some useful resources at Streams Ministries International with John Paul Jackson. You may be interested in a book he has written called Phrophetic Evangelism.

Be blessed ....Gilly

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on October 14, 2008 at 9:31pm

Paige, there are many places where Jesus makes reference to it. You will find that it is the Prophets who make the best references. See Isaiah, chapters 50-60.

One of the things that you will find however is that he "reveals" himself to those who have hearts to receive his revelation, and "hides" himself from those who do not.

Among other things -
You can come to it from a standpoint of logic. There are three options, scripturally:
1. Christ is God incarnate and God is Triune in nature.
2. Christ is A god, among many gods. (this is the Mormon position which can easily be refuted by the scriptures the JWs will quote to you).
3. Christ is the son of God, a created being and not God himself. (This position is refuted by the scriptures that the Mormons will show you).

This is the same issue that was debated at Nicea. In comparing the three concepts, it was concluded that only option 1 could be true, because the other positions cancelled each other out! This has been the view of the prophets and the apostles, in foretelling and detailing his Messianic ministry.

However, Jesus himself made the point excellently where he said (to the Jews):
41Then Jesus said to them, "How is it that they say the Christ is the Son of David? 42David himself declares in the Book of Psalms:
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
43until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet." ' 44David calls him 'Lord.' How then can he be his son?"
(Luke 20:41-44)

It helps to know the full context and to read the full chapter. Basically, the Jews knew that Messiah was to be "the son of David". They also knew he was to be "from heaven". These are two irreconcilable positions - since David was a man and not "a" God. Remember that in the hebraic concepts "Man" is equivalent to "sinner". Humanity does not originate from heaven, the term Man in Hebrew is "Adama" & Adamu is "soil" or "earth".

So, how then can Messiah be Human AND Heavenly? That's the problem that Jesus is illustrating.

He is also showing that Messiah cannot be merely human of some special origin. He MUST be LORD. What does that mean in the Hebrew mind? LORD = Almight God. The English gets a little convoluted here, but the point is that Jesus is saying that David calls his "son" Lord/God. Not "a god", But Almighty God.

There can be no mistaking, because in hebraic thinking - quite simply: no one declares his great grand son to be greater than himself. It is the other way around. In hebraic thought, you reverence your ancestors. Since David is KING, and the Great King at that, then for him to reverence his son, means that the son is greater in Order. He is superior to David in his Order. In other words, he must be divine.

Furthermore, no human was ever considered to be great enough to be a Prophet, Priest and King. A King or a Priest may have the gift of prophecy. But no Priest could be King, nor could King be Priest. ONLY someone greater and wiser than a mere human could be both. (Remember that the reason Uziah died was because he was a King who performed the duties of a Priest).

Yet, the New Testament declares to us in many places that Jesus is both King and Priest.

Finally, Jesus declares himself to be Alpha and Omega in Revelation; which Moses uses the same terms of God in the Torah.

The LDS folks do a lot of gymnastics to ignore this, as do the JWs. Yet, very simple Biblical study will reveal these facts. The attributes of BOTH humanity and deity are used of Christ by the Prophets and Apostles.

You will find it hard to put that in a single verse, but the entire book tells it clearly.

Blessings

~ Scribe

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Permalink Reply by Linda Diane Spencer on March 28, 2010 at 5:45am

I've appreciated what has been said as I've read through all the comments thus far. I'm just peeking in because the question is one of such pivotal importance and I was curious to see how it was answered.

I have nothing scholarly to add...what could I add that has not already been well stated? My heart is simply this and to rejoice that, not only did God love us so much that he was born into our humanity so we could know him, but I also have felt that perhaps God also loved us so much that he wanted to experience us more intimately as well by becoming human. And of course, that doesn't even touch on the subject of his sacrificial offering of himself for our sin...so much to be thankful for in the conversation of Jesus being human and God our Creator and Redeemer!
Jesus is so incredibly amazing and awesome and alive!

So, thank you Jesus for being among us, walking intimately with us,

Joy and Peace reside within and flow freely from each of you on your journey!
In Love,
Linda

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Permalink Reply by Kamau on October 15, 2008 at 3:59am

Dear PR

I think the verses below will help.

Matthew 4:5-7 (New International Version)

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6"If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:
" 'He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'[a]"

7Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test

Hebrews 1:2-4 (New International Version)

2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

Acts 2:35-37 (New International Version)

35until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet." '[a]

36"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"


Revelation 22 (NIV)

12"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

When i get more i will send you. But the main point should be that Jesus is the son of God ( He is God because He was not born of normal human liasons), The son is just like the Father and of course the aspect of the holy trinity - The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit

Keep up the good work

In Christ Jesus
Kamau

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Permalink Reply by ANNABELLE O. MADAYAG-OANDASAN on October 15, 2008 at 6:57pm

Hi Paige,

Our Lord will supply everything you need as you deal with the cult. The Holy Spirit is with you to give you wisdom, boldness, strength. I would like to share you some of the scriptures which I have been sharing with some members of the INC here in the Philippines. 1 John 2:1-2; 1 John 2:1-6; 20-25; 1John 6-12; God bless you!

belle

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Permalink Reply by Carla on October 30, 2008 at 2:47pm

Hi Paige,

The entire theme of the bible points to Jesus as God. The revelation that we even know that is from God. It is Him who pursues each of us. It is great that you are answering questions and witnessing to this group, but be sure that you are not engaging the enemy, and satan will set traps for us to fall into. Sometimes we may find our selves witnessing and find that our own faith is slowly weakening. As you are witnessing be sure to constantly be filling yourself with God's Word (as I am sure are doing), and remaining in constant fellowship and Worship. Put on your armor before you talk to others about Jesus. I am sure you are doing each of these to protect your relationship with Jesus....for it is your greatest treasure.

I feel that the following verses in 2 Peter (as many others as Jonathan already pointed out) clearly reveals Jesus as God.

2Pe 1:1 This letter is from Simon [fn] Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ. I am writing to all of you who share the same precious faith we have, faith given to us by Jesus Christ, our God and Savior, who makes us right with God.
2Pe 1:2 May God bless you with his special favor and wonderful peace as you come to know Jesus, our God and Lord, [fn] better and better.
2Pe 1:3 As we know Jesus better, his divine power gives us everything we need for living a godly life. He has called us to receive his own glory and goodness!
2Pe 1:4 And by that same mighty power, he has given us all of his rich and wonderful promises. He has promised that you will escape the decadence all around you caused by evil desires and that you will share in his divine nature. NLT

I have found it is really helpful to look at the same verse in different translations, to help our own understanding..(I'm sure you do that also). :)

Please also be aware of the following when you are witnessing.. Pray for God's revelation to the people or person you are witnessing to.

2Cr 3:12 Since this new covenant gives us such confidence, we can be very bold.
2Cr 3:13 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory fading away.
2Cr 3:14 But the people's minds were hardened, and even to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, a veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ.
2Cr 3:15 Yes, even today when they read Moses' writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.
2Cr 3:16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, then the veil is taken away.
2Cr 3:17 Now, the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, he gives freedom.
2Cr 3:18 And all of us have had that veil removed so that we can be mirrors that brightly reflect [fn] the glory of the Lord. And as the Spirit of the Lord works within us, we become more and more like him and reflect his glory even more.

and..

2Cr 4:3 If the Good News we preach is veiled from anyone, it is a sign that they are perishing.
2Cr 4:4 Satan, the god of this evil world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe, so they are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News that is shining upon them. They don't understand the message we preach about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
2Cr 4:5 We don't go around preaching about ourselves; we preach Christ Jesus, the Lord. All we say about ourselves is that we are your servants because of what Jesus has done for us.

finally,

Mat 7:6 "Don't give what is holy to unholy people.* Don't give pearls to swine! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you.

It is futile to try to teach holy concepts to people who don't want to listen and will only tear apart what we say. We should not stop giving God's word to unbelievers, but we should be wise in discerning in our witnessing so that we will not be wasting our time,(~study notes Life Application Study bible).

Armor on Sister..

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Permalink Reply by Rob on October 31, 2008 at 2:41am

Paige,

Here is a long list:

Psalm 86:10 You are God, YOU ALONE

Isaiah 42:8 I am Jehovah, and to no one else shall I give my own glory

Isaiah 43:10,11 Before me there was no God formed
NEITHER SHALL THERE BE AFTER ME. I, EVEN I AM THE LORD:
AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOR.

Isaiah 44:6 I AM THE FIRST, AND THE LAST: AND BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD

Isaiah 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is NONE ELSE, THERE IS NO GOD BESIDE ME

Isaiah 45:6 There is NONE beside Me. I am the Lord and there is NONE else.

Isaiah 45:15 you are a God, the /god of Israel, a Savior.

Isaiah 45:22 turn to me and be saved. For I am God, and there is no one else

Also from the NT - ESV

Look at John 8:51-59

In v-57 and 58 jesus says he is The Great I AM from (Moses and the Burning Bush).

57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Looks like everybody did a good job covering your question.

Hope this helps.

YIC - Rob

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Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on August 15, 2011 at 6:31am

Great reply Rob,

 

When Jesus says I AM in John 8:57, as when he was about to be arrested by the soldiers to be handed over to the Jews, he was hinting his own identity, because I AM is the how God called himself.

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on October 31, 2008 at 11:47am

Paige,

If you acquire a Nave's Topical Bible and look up "Jesus Christ" and then look under "Deity of" you will find a wealth of information to answer your question along with the sound input you have already received from others in this forum. I thought about posting it for you, but with its length and copyright laws I refrain and will encourage you to purchase one that is is book form or the computer version.

Lord Bless,
LT

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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on December 25, 2008 at 9:29pm

Col 1:16-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Joh 20:28-29 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Joh 10:30 -33 I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

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